Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroes?

Discussion in 'DotA Chat' started by Tyru, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Tyru

    Tyru Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    lolwut

    LoL adds new heroes at an alarming rate. For a while, they added one like every 2 weeks. That game is grossly inflated with heroes. Removing heroes would actually make the game far less similar to LoL

    ---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

    Skill cap too low for a team game, if there's only one hero. Similarly it's too low, with hundreds of unnecessary heroes, wherein many of them simply overpower the weaker ones. The idea is to find the correct balance (a multi purpose word indeed), to min/max the skill cap, to the highest potential of raw player skill
     
  2. Shanksuper

    Shanksuper Banned

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    ok
     
  3. CGtv.Endrence

    CGtv.Endrence New Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    Wow I hate it when people say that this game is any bit similar to LoL. This game is far superior to League in every competitive way.
     
  4. serefkana

    serefkana Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    Dota without Heroes isn't Dota...
     
  5. localsingle

    localsingle Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    Tyru quit spamming the forum with nonsense.
     
  6. KingSalt

    KingSalt Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    wtf is wrong with you!?
     
  7. Mr.3K

    Mr.3K Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    I'd be content with no techies
     
  8. Katharos

    Katharos Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    The game is perfectly fine. What you don't understand is, that the win ratio of all heros cannot be between 49% - 51%. Balance includes that heros like Drow and Treant exists.
     
  9. serefkana

    serefkana Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    Real life isn't 100% balanced either, exhibit A, Chuck Norris.
     
  10. ar4er13

    ar4er13 Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    Removing stuff to make it work perfectly (but making it bland and unintresting) IS NOT EFFICIENT WAY to change things... Its like , when I begin to play dota, I'd need to waste loltonn of hours learning , why not simply remove dota?


    Too much spamming around Tyru , and then making "WTF?ImajustDiscussin guyz!" posts which involves even more spamming.
     
  11. Yes.I.Did

    Yes.I.Did Banned

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    HELL no.95% of all heroes are fun to use.
     
  12. TheRobotDevil

    TheRobotDevil Banned

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    It's not like in LoL. Heroes aren't new releases of previous heroes that do the same thing better, or just alternate versions of them.

    Every hero in DotA has a unique mechanic/game style. If it was LoL, where all classes play the same, then yes. Otherwise no.
     
  13. tyler918273

    tyler918273 Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    This thread... Dota is not a game of heroes X and Y have equal winrates therefore they are balanced nor is it about R hero counters S hero. Its a game of innate complexity due to the possible combinations. This large number of combinations is actually a large part of why the game is so well balanced; some combination is likely to be a good solution to a problem. This doesnt work as well for lol because heroes are copy/pasted to a large extent so there are effectively many fewer combos (id say there are basically just ~15-20 "classes" in lol that do meaningfully different things). As long as individual hero balance remains reasonable this system keeps overall balance fairly well in line..

    Im curious: you keep invoking balance issues as motivation for a change but what are the specific issues? I didnt read all 10 pages so maybe i missed them but just saying that they exist without explicitly listing them doesnt help resolve them. I think most people who play Dota competently are pretty content with its current state. Of course there will always be tweaks here and there that may be necessary but a call for such a drastic change must be motivated by some serious issues. I can see one having the view that specific heroes are imbalanced or whatnot, im sure one could come up with legitimate justifications for some on an individual basis, but saying that >70% are severely flawed enough to necessitate removal is pretty radical.

    Another aspect is the meta-element of balance. We all know the story here; fads and whatnot influencing choices and therefore the perception of the state of the game. This makes it incredibly difficult to deduce the true state of balance. All of these factors in a balance discussion make for a system so deeply complicated that any attempt to drastically redesign it would almost certainly break it.

    Lets just do some simple calculations to get a feel of the scope of the game; 2 teams of 5 out of a pool of 100 is 4362197983022880 possible matchups. With a hero pool of 30 it goes down to 7571343780. So you think you could balance all 7.6 billion matchups better than players could achieve balance themselves by experimenting in a pool of 4.4 quadrillion? That is what lol has tried to do among their ~1 million effective matchups; a much simpler task but it still hasnt worked too well for them. Currently in Dota2, for example, for every problem there are 51971283 lineups to choose from that may be a solution (96560646 in Dota1). Reducing the pool to 30 means only 53130 options.

    Now i agree that any hero that is completely overshadowed by another that does the same thing better isnt necessary but i really dont see many examples of that in Dota. If that was the case i would prefer they be redesigned to add something new giving players more options to find solutions, not throw them out to limit the possibilities.
     
  14. papsicoolxi

    papsicoolxi Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    NO.
     
  15. xbon

    xbon Well-Known Member

    Re: Would You Prefer Dota To Only Have 20-30 Heroe

    Play random draft if you want 20 heroes, everyone has to pick from the same pool of heroes.