Trump Bans Muslim in USA

Discussion in 'World News & Debates' started by stereox, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator

    Let's not deteriorate here, no need for aggression (in regards to Blarg and Unreal99). Try to avoid patronizing eachother.
     
  2. Blarrg

    Blarrg Well-Known Member

    Wrong.
     
  3. Dark Rogue

    Dark Rogue Well-Known Member

    Well first of all, it's unlikely to turn into a third world country in this century unless it gets nuked or something among those lines. Second, feminism is far less influential than the internet would have you believe. Most common folk don't have the slightest idea who Anita Sarkeesian or Julie Bindel are, or what they're doing. The occasional story shows up in the news regarding feminist issues, but it really hasn't had any major effect on any society (in recent history; the right to vote, etc. obviously have), so yeah.
     
  4. Petique

    Petique Well-Known Member

    ^ Also from what I have read the number of feminists have decreased quite significantly (thankfully) from 28% to 17%.
     
  5. Unreal99

    Unreal99 Well-Known Member

    Too much logic, it'll never get through to them.
     
  6. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

  7. Unreal99

    Unreal99 Well-Known Member

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ccount/ar-BBq7isL?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

    ---------- Post added at 01:59 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 08:31 PM ----------

    More flip-flopping or someone that simply cannot be trusted on core issues like health care and 2nd amendment rights?

    http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/a-flip-flop-trump-now-supports-second-amendment

    Says one thing one year, changes the next and then lies about what he said:

    http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/a-flip-flop-trump-now-supports-second-amendment

    https://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/libertarians-versus-donald-trump
     
  8. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    Yosh, time for some real muslime attack, thread courtesy of 4chan

    [​IMG]
    post theme song: https://youtu.be/Xt7s7e7jiFY
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  9. CAFO

    CAFO Well-Known Member

    Trump doesn't care who the quotes come from as long as they support his agenda. Though, this is a very weak method of attacking someone; crazy people are right sometimes.
     
  10. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    And a broken clock is still right twice a day, still it's useless.
     
  11. Skulls_n_Souls

    Skulls_n_Souls Well-Known Member

    I didn't read all of the posts out here, but I read most of them. I know it's been a long time since someone commented on this, but I'd like to weigh in.

    First I just want to say that unless you've thoroughly read about something and inspected all its aspects, you shouldn't judge so fast on it. For example, I doubt that most of those who went full-rage against immigrants looked at the issue from the immgrants' perspective, and I would just love to see them imagining their lives under heavy fire and bombardings without even a ceiling to shield them, running from one corner of a street to another trying to avoid the bullets and shrapnel. It doesn't matter what religion, country, ethnicity, etc you come from, all humans are divided into good and bad. There's a bad christian and there's a good one, just like there's a good Muslim and a bad one. Imagine yourself that good Muslim that just wants to live. He'd do anything just to maintain his life. Close your eyes and imagine the scene I depicted.

    The solution to the crisis of refugees isn't by shutting the borders in their faces, but by distributing it equally. There are (were) 24 million people in Syria. Divided on EU and USA it won't look like such a big deal. And there aren't even 24 million people immigrating; a few million were killed, and a few millions stayed. Of course, that solution is applied only in a perfect world. Problem is, other countries' people are making use of it, tearing their passports apart as they sailed to EU, and some countries have enough problems of their own.

    Now, taking a look at Trump, well..
    There are some people who, when you see, you feel them radiating with hypocrisy, I get the vibe that he's one of those (just him being a fan of WWE is enough to confirm that.) Of course that's just a feeling of mine, but looking deeper into it, he really is stupid. His statements, agenda, etc are all clues leading to that he's going to lead America to another war. If you're supportive of that, idk what to tell you. He talks a lot about protecting the US from immigrants/Muslims by banning them and stands firm on it as it is the basis of his whole campaign, but in its folds there might be a potential war. In the end, everyone knows politics is a game of lies and/or bending the truth. I could talk more about it but I don't really have the energy or the time to go into details. You can just round bits and pieces from everywhere and see where he is going with it. War, however, is the last thing that America (or the rest of the world) needs. I really don't exclude the possibility that a WWIII may go while he takes the lead, with America leading one pole, and Russia the other.

    As for one vid I saw about Muslims and videos that are used to support someone's opinion - like Trump's intelligence: it is hilarious how the internet became a tool for false truths, although the whole truth is in it. I can montage a video to make it appear as if Trump was the new Ghandi; I can write a whole article about what a horrible thing it is to have ultimate freedom and if you support those opinions, you would stretch your hand throughout all the hay stack to reach this little speck of dust and hold it proudly saying "but see! this proves my opinion!" The fact is the opinions that are completely true are extremely rare to find, and if you want to find a truth yourself you have to spread the haystack and look at it as a whole, taking out what you really believe - after thorough, honest thinking - is false, till you have the bright picture. If you're too lazy to do so then don't share your opinion.


    EDIT: Off topic (although many people addressed this issue in their posts,) just one last thing I'd like to mention. I was born a Muslim. However, since I didn't really feel a presence of a God, I spent a few years reading about Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and I spent just sometime on others such as Sikhism. As none of them, including Islam, answered a few essential questions of mine, and all had flaws ranging from little to enormous, I became an Atheist. However, in my research I found that the most reasonable (i.e. least absurd, in my opinion) one is Islam. Most its instructions are reasoned in a way that, if you put your pride and arrogance aside and make logic dominant in your head, is very logically explained according to the human nature.
     
  12. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    if you can't judge the fruits, then judge the tree. that said read the koran. any non-muslim is an infidel and Allah commands all muslims to either convert non-muslims to muslim(islam) or face beheading. Also muslims are given privilege to loot from non-muslims including women and children (yes, you can rape infidels even if she's married to another guy).

    finally, try posting this on /pol/.
     
  13. Petique

    Petique Well-Known Member

    Reality has proved time and again that it is not a solutioin. First of all, we don't owe them anything, no one is obliged to just take in a bunch of people who illegally cross our borders, have no documentation and can't prove that they are refugees. You mention all these war scenes, yet you elegantly slip the part that more than half of these people don't even come from Syria. They just came for the wellfare. They have showed their true colors. How many more massacres, gang rapes and riots does it take for even you people to realize that these are not peaceful refugees, but illegal immigrants who came to abuse our welfare system?! Secondly, reality has also proved that building a fence on the borders is indeed a solution. There hasn't been any incidents in Hungary, Poland, Slovakia etc. who refused to take in these people. The border police had tough times but they secured their countries and that's the most important thing. Third, you can say a lot of things to Trump but stupid isn't one of them. You say that he is a warmonger, that he wants war, yet he said multiple times that he wants to create an alliance with Russia against the terrorists, something that no other president has even mentioned after WWII. If anyone, the biggest warmonger would be Hillary but of course you wouldn't know that, you read the headlines and think you know everything. Trump couldn't be more right on his immigrant policy. Without borders, there is no country. If you don't protect your borders then how will you protect your citizens? Crossing the border illegally and without official documents is a CRIME and should be treated as such. Also the part where you mentioned that Islam gives the best answers to your question is quite worrisome, don't know what your questions are, but whatever I am not gonna delve into that, because everyone is free to believe in whatever he wants, as long as he doesn't hurt or take away the rights from other people (which is exactly what Islam does but whatever that's a topic for another time).
     
  14. Skulls_n_Souls

    Skulls_n_Souls Well-Known Member

    @killdat: the fact that you say that shows how little education you have on the subject, other than the info being fed to us by the various media.

    First, where did you read that the Quran says that any non-muslim is an infidel? On the contrary, it refers to Christans and Jews as "people of the book" so many times throughout the book, and those of other religions as Mushreks. Infidels are, in definition, people who do not believe in a God.

    Secondly, give me on reference from the Quran that says in utter and complete statement that you must kill all those who are not Muslims, or salvage relentlessly. I have to note here that the quote which you should provide should include the full Ayahs (sentence from the Quran, that is) in which the context of killing or beheading is mentioned. I could say "I will kill everyone that I witnessed killing other people," and you may quote me saying "I will kill everyone," which is a falsified truth. That being said, there is a reference from Quran that says "so kill the heads of infidels for they make no honest pacts," but by quoting it as such, I have totally mislead whoever listens to what I have to say: "so" should give you a note that there's a whole other statement before that one. If you want to know what it says you could look into it, for I am not here to preach about religion, I'm just saying that you should have an open and full sided perspective.

    Following one side of opinions could blind you. For example, did you know that the wars that Mohammed waged were all for a reason? He sent messengers to Persia and other states. The Persian king at that time, kept the messenger as a captive, and then started slicing his abdomen while he was alive because he thought of him as defying his rule, and so a war was waged. On the other hand, the king of Egypt at that time treated the messenger well and sent back presents and a letter telling Mohammed that he will not convert to Islam, but is still in peace with it, and so, there were no wars waged against them for a few decades. The history books of opposing opinions don't offer an alternative to that story, they don't even falsify it, they just ignore it and talk about the war itself. I'm not saying Islam (or any religion for that matter) is good, I'm just saying that it doesn't order to kill in the cruel and monster way you think it does.

    Judging Islam by the actions of ISIS is like judging Christianity by the actions of KKK (at its time.)

    ---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------

    @petique: First I never claimed to know everything, after all, everyone here can't actually prove that what they say about Trump is correct - only Trump knows what goes in Trump's head.

    I didn't slip that part, you should re-read the quote which you've taken from my post.

    That means that the solution I mentioned can't really be applied. No one is forcing anyone to take refugees, and countries have rights to take in whoever they want. On a different perspective, however, humanity plays a big role in that issue. You have to see for yourself to know, but some situations that are too horrible to describe that you wouldn't want them for you sworn enemies.

    Again, I didn't say that Islam answers many of my questions, I simply stated that it's instructions are reasoned by logic, not by just by a list of orders and commands that you have to follow without asking questions. You should read my post more carefully before replying.

    About Trump, I'm aware that he said he would do an alliance with Russia, but again, I'm not basing what I said on a few facade statements he mentioned (even the ones about immigrants are facades) but on it as a whole. For example, he says quite a few times that he wants to take the fight to ISIS, which is quite a ridiculous statement because ISIS is not a state or a country, it's a terrorist organisation, and that worries me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
  15. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    Because those countries aren't the main destinations of refugees or immigrants, so of course they don't try to get into those countries, if they can reach their destination just by going around them.

    If people actually wanted to get into those countries, there is little that would stop them.
     
  16. 2ez4dondi

    2ez4dondi Well-Known Member

    This is like the most defeatist attitude I've ever seen. They can only get into that country because the country itself isn't trying enough to keep them out.
    "If the country actually wanted to keep them out, there is little that could come through".
     
  17. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    Nope.

    I'm simply putting things into context. When arguing about how well this "closed borders" politics are working you have to take a look at if those countries actually are seen as final destination or simply as a waypoint.

    Borders are huge and refugees/immigrants usually have the numbers advantage. The EU has 14.000km borders to non-EU states and thats without including borders to the sea.

    It's not defeatist, it's realist!
    Do you really think you can keep milions of refugees out?

    We've already had enough problems when just dealing with the few that tried to reach a safe location. Now try imagining what happens if the 10+ milions that are fleeing within Syria or waiting in adjacent states would start moving.
     
  18. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    :up:​
    Nope, it's defeatist.

    Simply build a wall in right places, shoot anyone who gets near (but place signs so they have a chance to turn around before they get into the firing range) unless they go to places that are meant for passing the border.
    They still got in?
    Fine because they can't stay hidden forever.
    Once they are found, simply throw them out on other side of the wall and start shooting.
    'But what if they are going by the sea?' I hear you ask.
    Most popular places will get guards that will transport all the illegal aliens to the wall and throw them on the other side... and start shooting.
    In case they got in, well, you know the drill.
    And don't worry about the numbers; way more primitive weapons were used to take way more lives, so I think we can manage.

    This is, ofc, the last measure.
    Still, it's a measure that should be taken if illegals take things too far.
     
  19. TwoHourMotel

    TwoHourMotel Well-Known Member

    Can you give me your idea of what too far is? When are you going to say its time to open fire on unarmed civilians?
     
  20. Petique

    Petique Well-Known Member

    When they throw rocks at you and go with battering rams to open the gates. In that case, imo it is justified.
    Otherwise water cannons would do the trick if they just refuse to turn back.