Terrorist attacks

Discussion in 'World News & Debates' started by Lithary, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. TwoHourMotel

    TwoHourMotel Well-Known Member

    Re: Paris Attack

    Yeah he's right guys, the Middle East was actually the epitome of human health, rights for women, homosexuals and minorities. It wasn't until the evil white supremacist patriarchy that is the US decided to kill innocent civilians for no reason that suddenly extremist Muslims came into power.

    The world is so simple when you view it through an intersectional feminist lense, thanks for teaching us that Enrico.
  2. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Well-Known Member

    Re: Paris Attack

    You do know that the radical Islamist revolution in Iran in 1979 was a direct response to US-led coup which installed a pro-Western but very unpopular shah? And before that Iran was a pretty secular country...

    Anyway, all of this will be deemed off-topic and removed by the mod. Was nice chatting with you, nerds.
  3. ToT712

    ToT712 Well-Known Member

    Re: Paris Attack

    Syria, Iraq, and Iran were secular. US always backs up religious extremists. Did they try to bring democracy and human rights to Saudi Arabia?
  4. Ostarion

    Ostarion Well-Known Member

    Re: Paris Attack

    Very true.
  5. TwoHourMotel

    TwoHourMotel Well-Known Member

    I forgot the entire middle east was in a golden age of human rights and prosperity. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard of any conflict in the middle east that didn't involve the US in the history of the region.

    Jokes aside, those extremists accepted those guns to continue their bloody warfare. The US's hands are not clean and they have done some terrible shit, but to pretend that the middle east was peaceful until the west showed up is delusion.

    It is possible to hold both positions, that the middle east has always been fucked up, and the US's intervention didn't help.
  6. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    ^ no, it made things worse.

    US have been selling arms to middle east since... I dunno, forever? business man I tell you, business.
  7. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Well-Known Member

    You didn't forget. You simply did not know. But don't worry, you can always educate yourself, for example about feminism in Iran at the turn of the 20th century: Women's rights movement in Iran.

    This is 1970, 9 years before US-instigated Islamic revolution:

  8. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator

    Re: Paris Attack

    As other people have stated, the US didn't deliberately target civilians to incite terror as a form of military tactic. They were accidental casualties. That in itself defies the "terrorist" tag.

    If you conflate events such as bombings killing civilians as a side-effect and attacks such as those in Nice and Paris, then you miss the entire point of terrorism. You are watering down the definition, moving a bunch of very different kinds of situations under the same "umbrella". Same as those people on social media that throw around words like "epic" and "amazing" to encompass all kinds of barely tangent definitions to "good".

    It's one thing to be critical of the US foreign policy and another to demolish every definition, meaning or intention just to make a moot, sensationalist point of "US government are terrorists". You are not doing your position any favours by adhering to this fundamentally flawed argument and especially when you state it as if other people should have taken it for granted.

    Unless this is some weird form of sarcasm, it doesn't make much sense.

    The point around authorization and the "official" character of an attack is revolving around the perpetrator, not the target. That would be completely irrational. Which government on earth would authorize foreign bombings of its own infrastructure?

    So, let me get this straight: Your entire point is summed up as "terrorism is about killing civilians and it's bad", "the war on Iraq and US military operations in the Middle east killed civilians and were bad" so "US military operations were terrorism".

    It doesn't sound as novel or sophisticated when you sort it down properly with logic now, does it?

    We should be thankful you are not a judge or lawyer, because unless you don't know how the law works, intention has a lot to do with how you view the action. For example, things that happen by accident.
    How can you not check for intentions for an event? This entire thread is about Muslim terrorist attacks. Don't you think this has something to do with differentiating specific intentions of some people's actions?

    Except the fact that Iran's secular government and institutions were imposed by the very unpopular Shah. So the US-led coup was nothing but a "last straw" as the people were already in discontent despite living in a secular country. The coup itself happened as the Shah was in danger of losing his power by the same kind of revolutionaries.
    If anything, the Islamic revolution was coming a long way, so blaming it on one group or another misses the point.

    Regardless, Iran's particular case is besides the point so I'll drop it here.

    It's actually not. Arguing terrorism is still relevant to, well, terrorism. Related events such as inter-communal turmoils within those states are also accepted as long as they are revolving around the same core idea.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  9. RockGolem

    RockGolem Well-Known Member

    A lot of hypocrisy here, yeah ISIS attacks target civilians and are easy to label as terrorist attacks, but in the grand scheme of things, they are but lowly pawns planted by a chain of events orchestrated by the US, i have heard many horrible horrible things that the US government/CIA/FBI have done to their OWN populations alone, it would not surprise me in the least that they would be so low as to "accidentally" cause harm in the Middle east and subtly fuel the fire of war in that region, accidental civilian casualties by drone attacks is one thing, providing ammunition for unstable unfriendly dictators is quite another.

    Making your enemies fight each other is one of the most effective and ancient methods of terrorism and outright war, and i'm sad to say the US is doing it right and succeeding to get away with it without drawing much attention to itself.

    The terrorists on the headlines today are the idiot henchmen that the real power seekers use to pull the strings from the backstage to gain power and influence.

    If that nazi mod removes this post i'm fucking done with this biased forum.

    ---------- Post added at 11:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------

    See,this is what i'm talking about. Who the hell are you to claim what is a terrorist attack and what isn't? Do you even COMPREHEND what terror is? Terror is waking up in the morning and fearing that you might not live to go to bed again because of being bombed, and if US drone attacks cause civilian casualties, then yes they are terrified and YES it is terrorism you think they give a shit if US officials say it was accidental? Your "Oooops, sorry our bad" means NOTHING to them. And these random "targeted drone attacks" used to happen and STILL happen on a weekly basis in places like Palestine, where the shit is that on the news?? People dismiss it as "ah another US/Israel fuck up, who cares" but when innocent white tourists die in Europe and the US then you bet your ass it will be on the news headlines in a heart beat, I remember during the early stages of the Israeli occupation of Palestine when people's homes were being bulldozed and families ripped apart CIVILIANS who threw rocks at tanks to stop them from destroying their houses were labeled TERRORISTS on the news for stopping them.

    That to me is the worst kind of terrorism there is, misinformation and lies. The same thing could happen right now in say, the US., some outsider would come and destroy your homes and kill your people, and for DARING to mount a defense you would labeled a terrorist on the news, that's the worst kind of evil i can ever think of, and sadly the US media has the power to pull that kind of BS off.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
  10. Eli_Green

    Eli_Green Well-Known Member

    Putting all of your hatred on the US is naive. There are far more players in the game, and you likely know that the media of many countries is able to have an insane amount of influence.

    Yeah the US has done and continues to do shady shit, as do Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, the EU, etc.

    If you target all of that at one of many perpetrators you are really no better yourself.

    And protip; calling out mods like that to get your post deleted so you can make some kind of statement does nothing to help your point. In doing d you are using some of the same tactics as that oh so dreadful US media.
  11. RockGolem

    RockGolem Well-Known Member

    You are right about that, the US alone aren't the only perpetrators in this and i never claimed they were, but they definitely played a big role.
  12. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator

    ISIS spawned from a series of US blunders in the region and the instability there. ISIS is not a "pawn" and it has nothing to do with the US anymore, just like Afghan mujahedeens and Bin Laden had nothing to do with the US after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was over.

    And I don't see any hypocrisy here. You are directing this post to some imaginary PD members that exist in your head alone. I have yet to see one person that doesn't admit US foreign policy the last decade has been a disaster. What you are doing is just blaming everything on the US as if the Middle east itself doesn't bear any faults.

    No, it's not a method of "terrorism". Pick up a dictionary and correct your definition. We are conversing in the English language and in the English language, terrorism means a very specific thing. What you said is not that thing.

    Excuse me, but what? The US not drawing the attention to themselves? Are we living on the same planet? The US is vilified by half of the world and on the forefront in general for the other half.
    Explain to me, how are US actions not given the attention they deserve? Every second article about the crisis in the Middle east makes reference to the war in Iraq and the war on terror in general. It's not like the US are secretive about it.

    Typical edgy conspiracy. It's not like terror organizations exist to oppose those "real power seekers". Apparently, every bad thing in the world is just deriving from the same source which I presume is every government you personally don't like.

    You see, this is a reflexive reaction to the chaos in the world. As humans, we can't stand ambiguity and unpredictability in our environment, so try to locate patterns and connections and find a cause. That's also how the idea of God was created.
    Because deep inside you know terrorism, war, conflict etc are chaotic and confusing, you use the general pattern of US being intrusive and mishandling foreign policy to use it as a convenient scapegoat for any bad thing that is even remotely related to the Middle east.

    There's no reason why I should remove it. And that's where it's obvious you have no idea how PD works. If you did, you'd know the rules for why posts are deleted. Because you don't know and you won't read the rules to enlighten yourself, you assume every deletion is "censorship" or that I do it because I'm biased.

    That's pretty easy to disprove (if you actually cared enough to bother), just try looking at several recent threads I posted in. Many posts I answer back to refute them and say I don't agree with them. If I was biased, why would they be lying around?

    The person who knows the actual definition of terrorism. As I've said, pick up a dictionary or google it. I don't make definitions, but I sure as hell don't corrupt them into something they are not.

    Yes, terror is also what I feel when I see a very scary film or when I'm afraid monsters are under my bed or when I walk in a poorly-lit street at night.

    You don't define terrorism with just the feeling of terror. Filmmakers that make horror movies are not terrorists, people who install street lamps are not terrorists for not doing their job well. Terror comes from a lot of things, terrorism does not.

    US drones don't attack Palestine or at least on upon US command. But regardless, it is on many media outlets when the conflict is something noteworthy.

    You see, Palestine and Israel have been having at it for decades and violent bursts happen all the time. You won't expect media outlets which are businesses to recycle the same story again every day, people won't be shocked anymore just like those people in Israel or Palestine that have pretty much grown into it.

    The media will care when something noteworthy comes up, like when a kid was killed. And that does come up a lot from time to time. You are angry at the US or Israel or whatever for what the media shows, but it's the media businessmen that you are really angry at.

    Yes, because shootings and massacres in Europe are rare.

    If I was a known criminal and you were a low-profile normal citizen, but we both ended up committing a murder, which would shock you more and draw more media attention? Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?

    I know of no media outlet that labeled Palestinian refugees that just threw rocks at bulldozers as "terrorists". You could provide some proof of your claims instead.

    Misinformation and lies are "terrorism" now? You have obliterated the definition. You have watered it down to an irreversible level, really. What does terrorism even mean now that you have turned this into this vague idea of war and confusion? Anything tangent can be called "terrorism" now by your logic.

    Assuming a war happened and the countries bombed each other during war time, everyone of them would be "terrorists" because civilians would be "terrified of the bombings"? Do you understand what you are essentially inferring?

    I'm not American nor Western European, but thanks for projecting your irrational hatred for the "west" and baseless assumptions of my nationality without even knowing me.

    As I've said, provide proof. No civilian in self-defense has ever been called a "terrorist" in any of the media outlets I have ever read. Unless you think suicide bombings are in "self-defense" also.

    Let me tell you something: Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because US did several fuck-ups, that doesn't give the right to other people to fuck up as well and cause pain and destruction. This irrational mandate of revenge is pathetic and inhumane.
    No violence of the kind we are discussing in this thread is ever justified.
  13. Petique

    Petique Well-Known Member

    I really don't like this 'let's blame the US for every single one of our troubles and misfortunes that happened to us' thing. This is unfortunately quite a common thing in my country as well (we had our share of bombs from the US as well, back in the 90s). The reason why it's a bad way of thinking is because it makes us see events in a very altered, fabricated way where the 'West' is seen like a hub of evil, cackling leaders whose only goal is to watch us suffer and die. It's illogical, it doesn't help solve the problem and it's simply a childish simplified way of thinking which throws objectivity out of the window.
  14. ToT712

    ToT712 Well-Known Member

    You only feel like this because you're on the Internet. People are less likely to speak about their country's internal affairs online, most of us know how fucked up our own systems are.
  15. TwoHourMotel

    TwoHourMotel Well-Known Member

  16. Petique

    Petique Well-Known Member

    Another day, another terrorist attack. This one was even from Syria, great.
  17. Necalli

    Necalli Well-Known Member

    Sometimes I wonder if the threats to Rio is just a bait, because Brazil doesn't seem like a country for an attack. Or, if an attack is going to happen, it might be in a 9/11 scale.
  18. Eli_Green

    Eli_Green Well-Known Member

    Only relevant countries get terorist attacks :cat:

    For real though Brazil's street crime level is a terror in its own right
  19. Z01d

    Z01d Well-Known Member

    "Terrorist mugged to death before he could even pull the trigger"
    in other news:
    "Attack foiled by poisoning from bay water in Rio"
  20. mrfokker

    mrfokker Well-Known Member

    It's the three stooges syndrome.