Skeleton King [Remake]

Discussion in 'Remakes' started by Lithary, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    [nqb]
    - Introduction -
    The main purpose of this idea is to remake Vampiric Aura and Critical Strike skills.
    Those two skills are effective and fit him, but the problem is that Vampiric Aura is already used by VO, and Critical Strike is probably the most overused skill in the game.
    I'll also add an ASU and make few more tweaks to other skills, but all changes made will not remove any simplicity or manliness from him!
    Here is current Leoric the Skeleton King.

    As bonus, I suggest that you check this thread out and support it if you like it!

    Remember to judge based on concept, but still tell me if numbers need fixing.​

    - Skills -
    [tab][​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]
    [table]Hellfire Blast|[table]Type: Activate
    Targeting: Unit
    Targets: Enemy Units
    Hotkey: T[/table]|Leoric launches a sphere of hellfire from the end of his sword, causing his victim to burst into flames. Deals damage and stuns for 2 seconds while also setting the target on fire, burning and slow it and enemy units near it for 4 seconds.[/table]
    [​IMG][table]__|____.|________.|_______.|___.|_______.|__________________________.
    |Mana|Cooldown|C. Range|AoE|Duration|Effects
    1
    |
    140​
    |
    8​
    |
    600​
    |
    200​
    |
    2 (stun)/4 (dps & slow)​
    |50 impact damage, 10 dps, stun, 15% slow.
    2
    |
    140​
    |
    8​
    |
    600​
    |
    200​
    |
    2 (stun)/4 (dps & slow)​
    |100 impact damage, 15 dps, stun, 15% slow.
    3
    |
    140​
    |
    8​
    |
    600​
    |
    200​
    |
    2 (stun)/4 (dps & slow)​
    |150 impact damage, 20 dps, stun, 15% slow.
    4
    |
    140​
    |
    8​
    |
    600​
    |
    200​
    |
    2 (stun)/4 (dps & slow)​
    |200 impact damage, 25 dps, stun, 15% slow.[/table]

    -Notes:
    • Damage type: Magical.
    • DoT is dealt in invervals of 2/3/4/5 damage every 0.2 seconds.
    • Total damage: 90/160/230/300.

    - A small buff, but the main idea was to make it more firey.
    This is how the spell works now; Leoric casts it on a unit and it will fly to it and hit it, just like it's been doing up to now.
    The difference from now on is that burning damage and slow start as soon as damage is dealt and stun starts, so the main target will be stunned and slowed/burned for two seconds at the same time, and will continue to be burned/slowed for 2 more seconds after the stun is over.
    The burn damage and slow now has an AoE of 200, meaning that all enemies which get close to the main target will also get slowed and burned.
    In case they leave the AoE, burn/slow will not stick on them, but will stop instead.
    {|}
    [table]Vampiric Presence|[table]Type: Passive
    Targeting: -
    Targets: Allied Units
    Hotkey: V[/table]|Each strike of Leoric's bloodthirsty blade will heal Leoric by a certain amount and all his allies around him for half of the value.[/table]
    [​IMG][table]__|____.|________.|_______.|___.|_______.|__________________________.
    |Mana|Cooldown|C. Range|AoE|Duration|Effects
    1
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    600​
    |
    -​
    |Gains 10% life-steal.
    2
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    600​
    |
    -​
    |Gains 15% life-steal.
    3
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    600​
    |
    -​
    |Gains 20% life-steal.
    4
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    600​
    |
    -​
    |Gains 25% life-steal.[/table]

    -Notes:
    • Stacks with other life-steals, but they will not increase the amount allies are healed, just Leoric.

    - Note that this idea is not originally mine, but I can't find the link to the original thread of it!
    Nerfed the numbers a bit, but it's because Leoric can now heal both melee and ranged units.
    This is a much better skill than current one since it encourages Leoric to go in front lines like he should.
    For those who don't understand, this is how this skill works.
    Let's say that Leoric strikes an enemy and deals 200 damage, he will get healed by 50HP and all his allies in 600 AoE will get healed by 25HP.
    {|}
    [table]Unholy Smite|[table]Type: Passive
    Targeting: -
    Targets: Any Unit
    Hotkey: U[/table]|Has a chance on each strike to sacrifice a percentage of his HP in order to enchant his next attack and deal a deadly blow to his enemy. Can sacrifice 5% of max HP and gain four times of amount sacrificed as bonus damage on his next strike.[/table]
    [​IMG][table]__|____.|________.|_______.|___.|_______.|__________________________.
    |Mana|Cooldown|C. Range|AoE|Duration|Effects
    1
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |Gains 10% chance of preforming Unholy Smite.
    2
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |Gains 15% chance of preforming Unholy Smite.
    3
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |Gains 20% chance of preforming Unholy Smite.
    4
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |
    -​
    |Gains 25% chance of preforming Unholy Smite.[/table]

    -Notes:
    • Damage type (HP sacrifice): HP removal.
    • Can die from sacrificing HP.
    • On average, Leoric gains 20/30/40/50 damage and sacrifices 5/7.5/10/12.5HP per 1K of HP on each hit.

    - I know that there is already a very similar suggestion to this, but I swear on my mother's tits I came up with this one myself!
    This is a perfect skill to replace that way overused Critical Strike while not messing around with play-style of the hero.
    Note that bonus damage is added on his regular attack just like Nethertoxin adds bonus damage to Viper's regular attack, for example!
    {|}
    [table]Reincarnation|[table]Type: Passive
    Targeting: -
    Targets: Enemy Units
    Hotkey: R[/table]|[table]When killed, Leoric will return to life in a burst of hellfire, damaging and slowing MS of enemies around him.
    ASU: All allied heroes who die around him will be forced to serve Leoric as Skeleton Warriors until they revive or Leoric dies. It takes 4 Seconds for Skeletal Warrior to form, and in case a Skeleton Warrior gets destroyed, it will reform after 4 seconds.[/table][/table]
    [​IMG][table]__|____.|________.|_______.|___.|_______.|__________________________.
    |Mana|Cooldown|C. Range|AoE|Duration|Effects
    1
    |
    140​
    |
    240​
    |
    -​
    |
    600 (slow & dps)/1200 (SW resurrection)
    |
    4​
    |4 seconds delay, slows enemy's MS around him by 30% and deals 30 dps.
    2
    |
    140​
    |
    160​
    |
    -​
    |
    600 (slow & dps)/1200 (SW resurrection)
    |
    4​
    |4 seconds delay, slows enemy's MS around him by 30% and deals 30 dps.
    3
    |
    140​
    |
    80​
    |
    -​
    |
    600 (slow & dps)/1200 (SW resurrection)
    |
    4​
    |4 seconds delay, slows enemy's MS around him by 30% and deals 30 dps.[/table]

    -Notes:
    • Will revive even if silenced on death.
    • Will not revive if Skeleton King does not have required mana.
    • Will not revive if he dies on unpathable terrain.
    • If Skeleton King has an Aegis and Reincarnation is cooled down upon death, Reincarnation will trigger first.
    • Revives with full HP and full mana.
    • Risen Skeleton Warriors statistics:
    - 500 HP +20% of dead hero's HP.
    - 350 MS and 1.5 BAT.
    - 10 Hero type armor and 25-50 +100% of dead hero's main attribute Hero type damage.
    - 1HP/sec regeneration.
    • Dead heroes will gain 50% of gold and experience.
    • If a Skeleton Warrior leaves the AoE, he will fall apart and will reform only if Leoric is near him again (it will take 4 seconds to do so).

    Yellow show Aghanim's Scepter upgrades.

    - This is how all the Skeleton Warrior business works.
    When an ally hero around Leoric dies, hero will die normally like always, with difference that a Skeleton Warrior will appear after 4 seconds on spot where the hero died.
    Owner of the dead hero will have the control of the skeleton, not Leoric!
    Each time a Skeleton Warrior gets killed, it will revive on the spot he was killed after 4 seconds.
    If Leoric goes too far before the skeleton revives, timer will reset and skeleton won't revive.
    Only way to permanently destroy Skeleton Warriors is ether to kill Leoric or for the hero to revive.
    Upon resurrection, Flame Strike from ladder should be used as animation for for hellfire burst which will damage and slow enemies.
    [/tab]​
    [/nqb]

    ____________________________________

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2013
  2. psukkar

    psukkar Well-Known Member

    I quite like this. this would change his item build. He would have to get items like a heart, skadi and linkens as oppose to getting pure damage items early on. There arent many major strength stat items in dota and it would be a waste to get satatic and needs the strength stats to get the damage from it too. buying raw hp is another option but ur not getting damage from the stats.



    I feel indifferent at the moment to be honest, my gut feeling is to say sk is fine as is but the 3rd skill is good and original and im big fan and like to champ those who suggest changes to copy cat spells in the game. crits, voodoo, finger of death, impale are all on my to change list. Can't stand copy cat spells it so plain and not very creative. An item like skadi is actually a pretty good item on sk currently, it makes him unkillable and relentless. So I think this remake could work quite well.

    If anything it maybe over powered.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2012
  3. Subotai

    Subotai Well-Known Member

    Lifesteal, had this idea on my archangel. Numbers seem acceptable.

    Strike, since you have the lifesteal, the bonus damage received negates totally the hp lost.
    With a 25% proc, you could say it's a 5% of max hp on each hit, that take 8 level to obtain (=only mid late game).
    This is like a STR ursa, every point of STR gives 19hp -> 1dmg.
    Leoric now gains 2 point of damage for 1 point of Str.

    The idea looked interesting, but it seems quite overpowered.

    About ulti, I will always dislike ASU on hard carry, since for the item to be worth to buy with its shitty stats it would have to be imba.

    EDIT :
    Linkens srsly ? Satanic would seem even better than before. And they are fucking HEROES.
     
  4. Inconnue

    Inconnue Well-Known Member

    Well this is definitely unique and outstanding.
     
  5. BorisPeace-

    BorisPeace- Well-Known Member

    I like the suggestions!

    I'll just suggest one thing, change the name Unholy Bash, because using Bash in the spell name associates it with, well, Bash. Unholy Blow, Unholy Strike, Unholy Slash, Unholy Hack, Unholy Carve, Unholy Slice etc.
     
  6. Monsterlord_2nd

    Monsterlord_2nd Well-Known Member

    Seen as Vampiric Presence and the Aghs upgrade are the main changes, they're the ones I'll comment on in detail. As for Unholy Smite, the concept of damage based on hp is great for Leoric, but a random chance to hurt yourself will always be a risky design choice.

    Vampiric Presence is an excellent remake, staying true to what his current aura does, but also making it unique, giving him a bit more use in supporting allies, and encouraging an extremely hard style of carrying in order to keep your allies alive.

    The Aghs upgrade is one of the very few I think would be worth buying on Leo. Again, it provides a more team-based angle on his place within a team, while not detracting from his hard-carry role. It will also force him into a very strong tanking position, because anyone trying to leave him until last will find it next to impossible to beat down those skeletons constantly.

    However, they are too strong. They are currently at least as powerful as Warlock's "split" level 3 Infernals, with immortality and scaling stats based on the dead hero.

    I like the permanent revival mechanic, and would even say it's already balanced, so I would like to see that stay while their strength is nerfed. Perhaps 400/600/800 hp, 45-60/55-70/65-80 damage and no additional scaling from the dead hero's stats.

    -----

    Where are you pulling this bullshit from? Leoric's naturally tanky, especially with damage-based builds.

    -----

    Not necessarily. It can be just as viable by simply changing the hero's role or amplifying a previously-overlooked trait.

    Tiny's Aghs: Hard-hitting hero --> Living siege weapon.
    Balanar's Aghs: Early ganker/late carry --> Legal maphack.
    Clock: Nuisance --> Permanent ganking machine.
    Void: Pure hardcarry --> Initiation/hardcarry hybrid.

    Of all of those heroes, and plenty of other examples, only Balanar makes proper use of all three stats. On everyone else it would be considered a total waste, if it didn't significantly change how the hero is played.
     
  7. Subotai

    Subotai Well-Known Member

    ^Unholy smite : the bonus damage is 4 times the damage dealt to himself. Therefore the bonus lifesteal from aura (25%) is equal to the damage dealt to himself.
    When procing, Leoric will not hurt himself if he has lifesteal lvl 4, and heal as usual with his lifesteal on usual attack.

    As for the ulti, i eventually gave it a look. I would first give it some kind of scaling, there is a typo (dead heroes gaining 50% of gold and ... not hp).
    There is gameplay synergy with both new lifesteal and crit (because promoting tankiness).
    Still I don't like it =D can't help.
     
  8. psukkar

    psukkar Well-Known Member

    did u notice his damage is now based on his hp. So what are u going to buy to increase his hp? U have two options strength stat items like the ones I suggested and raw hp items like soul booster.

    Strength stats is better as lerioc get damage from it aswell. This is the key change to leroic from tis remake is the items he would get. The only item that will still be effective on lerioic after this remake is armlet. Items like mkb early on like we get now wont be as good anymore.

    its like ursa, what dps items are u getting with this hero? ur wasting ur time if ur getting mkbs early on.
     
  9. psukkar

    psukkar Well-Known Member

    well 25 strength for 5% damage increase is quite high for 6200 gold. i forgot to mention sange and yasha before too. Linkens was just to be complete with my list.

    but the overall theme is correct you would have to get strength stats anyway u can. And linkens on almost any hero could be more benefical on a late game carry depending on the situation. Could even be better than avtar sometimes inb late game fights last quite abit so a 20 secs cd would be rather good.


    but anyway this remake demands strength stats, everyone needs to understand this.

    This remake like you meantioned eariler would have to get simular late game items as an ursa. So item builds will change quite a bit after such remake.
     
  10. Monsterlord_2nd

    Monsterlord_2nd Well-Known Member

    last I checked Armlet, Halberd, Bkb and Satanic all gave worthwhile strength boosts, and Vanguard was an excellent tanking item.

    Better than retarded shit like Linkens and Skadi at least >_>
     
  11. psukkar

    psukkar Well-Known Member

    lol sk is a hard carry. U think vangraud and halberd will cut it, dont make me laugh. Satatic is okay with 25 str better than nothing, but its very expensive for a relatively small damage increase. at 5 % your legendary item gives 23.75 damage for 6200 gold. Do you see a problem here?


    I would buy a skadi for 5700 as oppose to satatic for 6200 ANY TIME OF THE WEEK and u should too if such a remake was actally done. Skadi even now is not a bad item for sk after an inital pure damage item. Only thing bad about skadi is the build up but stats will help sk in more than one way. Mana, ias, armor, hp, hp rgen, mana regen. Did i miss one?

    anyway as u can see with your suggested items this remake will limit ur late game items abit.

    accept it dont fight me over such simple and logical matter.


    you should do some quick calcs before u start saying items halberd will solve anything if a 25 strentg satatic gives u 24 damage from this speell as a result of the 5% stated, for 6200 gold too. Skadi is cheaper and better in every way for sk now and for this remake.
     
  12. Monsterlord_2nd

    Monsterlord_2nd Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]

    You've just completely invalidated every point you're ever going to make.
     
  13. psukkar

    psukkar Well-Known Member

    lol nice try quote my whole statement. u missed " if such a remake was actally done".


    U also missed the part where Isaid 24 damage for 6200 gold is what happens when you buy a satatic with sk with this remake idea.


    By bad mouthing my statement even the way you have quoted it, seems to me you buy satatic now with sk is quite laughable to say the least.

    i think ur a noob, do some quick calc with 5% of hp items and u will see why u are very misinformed and I have wasted to much time talking to you now. This is my biggest regret of all after your cheap palor tricks of miss qouting me.
     
  14. Monsterlord_2nd

    Monsterlord_2nd Well-Known Member

    Why should I need to include that? The entire discussion is in the context of this suggestion, and your declaration that Vanguard or Halberd would be shit is idiotic in either this or the current situation.

    Please tell me Satanic's stats, and then figure out how much damage it gives.

    Nope. What a stupid assumption to make.
     
  15. psukkar

    psukkar Well-Known Member

    You havent even read the suggestion, everything have i said is directed on how sk's items change with the 3rd skill suggested. You can calc the damage from satatic urself with the thrid skill. U seem to "think" you have all the answers.

    You have been banned before and therefore as fate would have it, you want bring about another banning on yourself again. Stop talking me, i find u annoying.

    Nice talking to you kind sir.
     
  16. fr3quenzy

    fr3quenzy Member

    Ha ha, Okay. I guess you should try to send this thing on Official Dota website (feedback page).

    At least try it once :)
     
  17. Monsterlord_2nd

    Monsterlord_2nd Well-Known Member

    Another stupid assumption.

    That doesn't make it any better. They're still clueless comments.

    No, I want you to post Satanic's stats and tell me how much damage Leoric would gain from it. I want you to show me exactly why you think it's only 24 damage.

    I don't think I have all of the answers. I know I have most of them though.

    You have no clue what you're talking about, scrubling.
     
  18. Inconnue

    Inconnue Well-Known Member

    ot: oh here we go
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Lama051

    Lama051 Moderator

    Let´s remake all heroes so they are as difficult as invoker.

    T-Down, newbs really need a hero to play with.
     
  20. Monsterlord_2nd

    Monsterlord_2nd Well-Known Member

    Have you even looked at it? He still has three straightforward passives.