[Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Discussion in 'Hero Ideas' started by NeuroNoise, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    [Scourge/Dire - STR] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

    [tab]Introduction|Hero Summary|Skills|Testmap|Explanations|Changelog|Thanks

    [​IMG]
    "Look at my horse,
    My horse is amazing!.."

    from Amazing Horse
    Hi! I'm NeuroNoise! Welcome to my suggestion for..

    [TABLE]
    [​IMG]
    The Ripping Beast
    Praedator
    |[nqb]
    [​IMG]
    [/nqb][/TABLE]​

    [​IMG]
    [nqb]
    "Praedator" meaning "hunter" from latin. Hunter.. Praedator not a typical hunter. He not waits in the bushes. He heatedly dashes to victim, crushing, ripping and destroying all on his way. The ripping beast.. he always ready to battle. He already coming for you.. :crazy:[/nqb]
    Game Role:
    Сarry, initiator, durable, ganker.

    Comments:
    It's my first attempt to create a new hero, so don't be hypercritical, but also don't hesitate to correct me, report about any mistakes, give some advices, ask a questions, etc.
    Any numbers in suggestion can be remaked/rescaled for the balance adjustment.

    Guys! Give your T-ups, and maybe.. IceFrog add this hero in the next patch! :stuart:

    I will be very happy to any help with making testmap
    (i will give all explanations how skills should work, go to Testmap/Explanations)

    And please, sorry for my poor English.. :facepalm:

    {|}

    [​IMG]
    [TABLE="1"][TABLE]
    Strength​
    |[​IMG]|
    23+3.1​

    Agility​
    |[​IMG]|
    18+1.75​

    Intelligence​
    |[​IMG]|
    12+1.4​
    [/TABLE]|[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [/TABLE]

    [​IMG]
    [TABLE]Base Damage:|42-56|||Starting Hp/MP:|587/156
    Affiliation:|Scourge|||Armor:|0
    Attack Range:|135 (melee)|||BAT:|1.7
    Movespeed:|305|||Sight Range:|1800 / 1200
    [/TABLE]

    {|}
    [​IMG]
    If you have any problems with understanding, what skills do or how they work, go to Explanations.[tab]Greed Rush|Hunter's Jump|Feel My Pain!|Rampage
    [TABLE][​IMG]|[TABLE]Ability Type:|Active
    Targeting Type:|Unit
    Ability Hotkey:|R[/TABLE]
    |Not wanting to share his food, Beast swiftly appear beside his prey, grabs and throws it over himself, and then charges back, pushing apart all enemies on the path. Prey will be damaged and injured for duration.[/TABLE]

    [​IMG]

    [TABLE]|Manacost|Cooldown|Cast Range|AoE|Duration|Allowed Targets|Effects
    1|50|55|360 (blink) / 430 (throw)|N/A|2 sec|Allied / Enemy Units|55 damage, 5 dps and maim
    2|55|50|380 (blink) / 460 (throw)|N/A|2 sec|Allied / Enemy Units|100 damage, 10 dps and maim
    3|60|45|400 (blink) / 490 (throw)|N/A|2 sec|Allied / Enemy Units|145 damage, 15 dps and maim
    4|65|40|420 (blink) / 520 (throw)|N/A|2 sec|Allied / Enemy Units|190 damage, 20 dps and maim
    [/TABLE]

    • Damage type: physical
    • Maim: -20% MS & AS
    • Pushing enemies back in 225 AoE around him (they move 150 units back in 0.2 sec), pushing cause 0.2 ministun.
    • Your prey also will be pushed.
    • You charging back with 1.5*current_MS.
    • No damage and pushback to allied units.


    {|}
    [TABLE][​IMG]|[TABLE]Ability Type:|Active
    Targeting Type:|Instant
    Ability Hotkey:|E[/TABLE]|The hunt has begun! Praedator jumps onto enemy and slams the ground under his legs, then slashes that enemy furiously.[/TABLE]

    [​IMG]

    [TABLE]|Manacost|Cooldown|Range|AoE|Duration|Allowed Targets|Effects
    1|55|40|600|225|0.2 sec|Enemy units|Ministun, 2 next attacks has AS buff
    2|65|35|625|225|0.3 sec|Enemy units|Ministun, 2 next attacks has AS buff
    3|75|30|650|225|0.4 sec|Enemy units|Ministun, 3 next attacks has AS buff
    4|85|25|675|225|0.5 sec|Enemy units|Ministun, 3 next attacks has AS buff
    [/TABLE]

    • AS buff: 2.5*base_AGI, it lasts 10 seconds after landing
    • Interrupts channeling spells, interrupt works on magic immune units.
    • On cast, Praedator leaps forward at a speed of 900, stopping when he latches onto an enemy unit in 100 AoE, or has traveled distance, equal to casting range.
    • Trees are destroyed in a 225 AoE around Praedator's landing area.

    {|}
    [TABLE][​IMG]|[TABLE]Ability Type:|Passive
    Targeting Type:|N/A
    Ability Hotkey:|F[/TABLE]
    |Pain enrages the Beast, and he will cruelly revenge for the strongest wounds. Give additional damage to the next two attacks, also first attack will cause Pain Shock debuff on enemy. When Beast under buff, part of his damage will be lifestealed.[/TABLE]

    [​IMG]

    [TABLE]|Manacost|Cooldown|Range|AoE|Duration|Allowed Targets|Effects
    1|N/A|2.75 sec|N/A|N/A|0.4 (debuff)|N/A|45% of received damage, 40% lifesteal
    2|N/A|2.3 sec|N/A|N/A|0.4 (debuff)|N/A|55% of received damage, 48% lifesteal
    3|N/A|1.85 sec|N/A|N/A|0.4 (debuff)|N/A|65% of received damage, 56% lifesteal
    4|N/A|1.4 sec|N/A|N/A|0.4 (debuff)|N/A|75% of received damage, 64% lifesteal
    [/TABLE]

    • Received damage instance must be greater than 25 (after reduction).
    • Give a buff to Beast: a percent of received damage instance goes as bonus damage to your first attack, and half from that bonus to your second attack.
    • Pain Shock: silence and disarm for duration.
    • Buff has 15 seconds delay before it disappear.
    • If you gain an instance of damage (single attack/one cats/one portion of DoT), which is greater than such in buff, and passive is not on cd, buff will be replaced with new.
    • Lifesteal is not an orb effect.


    {|}
    [TABLE][​IMG]|[TABLE]Ability Type:|Active
    Targeting Type:|Instant
    Ability Hotkey:|G[/TABLE]|Beast falls into rampage, screaming and ripping his body, and becoming insensitive to pain in short duration. Scream is so strong, that all enemy units in area become confused and hurt. At the end of duration, Beast receive all pain and become completely uncontrollable and unstoppable.[/TABLE]

    [​IMG]

    [TABLE]|Manacost|Cooldown|Range|AoE|Duration|Allowed Targets|Effects
    1|125|105|N/A|600|2.5 sec * / 3 sec **|Enemy units|105 damage to enemies, you lose 20% of current HP and gain Rage buff
    2|150|95|N/A|625|2.5 sec * / 3.5 sec **|Enemy units|210 damage to enemies, you lose 22% of current HP and gain Rage buff
    3|175|85|N/A|650|2.5 sec * / 4 sec **|Enemy units|315 damage to enemies, you lose 24% of current HP and gain Rage buff
    [/TABLE]

    • (*) entangle duration / (**) Rage buff duration.
    • Rage buff: +25% MS & AS.
    • Damage type: pure. Damage, divided by 5 parts, apply every 0.5 sec.
    • It's a channeling spell, channeling time 1.5 sec, in that time you have 98% psysical/magical resist, but losing HP (HP removal). After channeling you gain Rage buff.
    • You can't suicide with this ability.
    • Any unit, that enter AoE in time of channeling, will be entangled.
    • After channel, Praedator will choose nearest hero (or unit) and attack him. You can't control him 1 sec or until he land an attack.
    • Trigger Praedator's passive, even it was on a cooldown.


    [/tab]

    {|}

    Testmap:

    Sorry, but I have poor mapmaking experience.
    So, I will be glad to you help. If you can make test map for me, write me PM.
    I don't have enough time to create testmap for now.

    Also, I found JASS code for all existing abilities (6.74c):
    http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=639324

    Thanks for any help with that.

    Current state: nope.. :hope:

    {|}
    [tab]Greed Rush|Hunter's Jump|Feel My Pain!|Rampage

    After 0.3 second after cast Beast appear near the unit, toss him in direction, opposite to his face, and then run to that unit (run works like [note=Barathrum's first skill]Charge Of Darkness[/note])

    After 0.3 second after cast Beast appear near the targeted unit (that means he disappear in point from where skill is casted, 0.1 disappear fade time), then appears near the target unit, toss him in direction, opposite to his face (tossing Tiny style, but targeted unit, not random, and direction can't be choosen), and then run to that unit (run works like Charge Of Darkness, you push all enemy units, 225 AoE, 150 pushback in 0.2 sec, so 0.2 ministun, interrupt chanelling; charging speed equal to hero's current speed * 1.5). When target lands, it receive damage and debuff (X dps, -20 MS & AS, lasts 2 sec). When you get to the target, it also will be pushed and ministuned.
    {|}
    Jump works [note=Slark's second skill]Pounce[/note] style, but applying ministun, if there enemies in 225 AoE.
    First part of skill works completely like Slark's Pounce.
    - On cast, Beast leaps forward at a speed of 900, stopping when he latches onto an enemy unit in 100 AoE, or has traveled XXX distance (look at casting range).
    - Trees are destroyed in a 225 AoE around Beast's landing area.
    - At the landing point will be applied 225 AoE ministun (duration YY), that can hit magic immune units, so it interrupts channellings even if enemy was magic immune.
    - After landing Beast gain buff (base_AGI * 2.5), and next 2(3) attacks have enhanced AS.
    {|}
    Let's Praedator have FMP lvl1, and deal X dmg on each attack.

    For example, Lina use Laguna Blade lvl1 on Praedator. If passive was on cooldown, you receive damage and won't have any bonuses.
    If passive was active, it goes on cd, you receive 450 magical damage from Lina (337,5 dmg after reduction); also you gain a buff, that gives to your next attack (337,5 * 0.45) =~ 151 bonus dmg.
    So, you have (X+151) dmg for your first attack, and 40% from (X+151) will be lifestealed. Also you debuff enemy with Pain Shock on that attack.
    Second attack have only half bonus: (X+151/2) = (X+75), and 40% of (X+75) will be lifestealed. No debuff.
    Then buff wears off from you. Third and other attacks won't have any bonuses, until passive will be triggered again.

    Another example: Void hit you with his melee attack. Let it deal 85 physical dmg after reduction. If passive was on cooldown, you receive damage and won't have any bonuses.
    If passive was active, it goes on cd, you receive 85 physical damage; also you gain a buff, that gives to your next attack (85 * 0.45) =~ 38 bonus dmg.
    So, you have (X+38) dmg for next attack, and 40% from (X+38) will be lifestealed. Also you debuff enemy with Pain Shock on that attack.
    Second attack have only half bonus: (X+ 38/2) = (X+19), and 40% of (X+19) will be lifestealed. No debuff.
    Then buff wears off from you. Third and other attacks won't have any bonuses, until passive will be triggered again.

    Feel My Pain adds to bonus damage only from single-dealed instance of damage (not from sum), if it was greater than 25, and passive is not on cd. Damage portions don't stack. But, if you gain a single-dealed portion of damage, which is greater than previous portion, and passive is not on cd, buff will be replaced with new.

    Create a 'DAMAGE_INST' - integer type variable, set to 0. Also create 'ATT_COUNTER' - boolean type variable.
    When cd is over, passive waits for a damage instance (any type of damage, received from any hero; it may be single attack/one cats/one portion of DoT/etc.; it must be greater than 25). That instance compared with 'DAMAGE_INST', and if it bigger, record it into 'DAMAGE_INST', passive goes to cd; in other case wait for a new instance.
    Beast have a XX damage bonus, which is equal to [45 + 10*(skill_lvl - 1)]*0.01*'DAMAGE_INST', i.e. 45/55/65/75 % from 'DAMAGE_INST'.
    After first hit, 'DAMAGE_INST' wiil be divided by 2, and after second set to 0.
    When passive triggered, set 'ATT_COUNTER' to "true". When you attack hero, place a Pain Shock debuff on attacked enemy: silence and disarm for 0.4 sec, and set 'ATT_COUNTER' to "false".
    Also, Beast have Lifesteal ability, if 'DAMAGE_INST' is not 0; lifesteal is not an orb (like that in Tresdin's Moment of Courage).

    'DAMAGE_INST' "lives" limited period - 15 seconds. If Praedator not land an attack, set 'DAMAGE_INST' to 0, and 'ATT_COUNTER' to false.

    phew.. :hope:
    {|}
    After cast any enemy, that was in 600/625/650 AoE, or enter that AoE for the next 1.5 sec, will be entangled (something [note=Xin's first skill]Searing Chains[/note] style). Beast also disabled for 1.5 seconds (playing some hero animation), and have 98% physical and magical resist, but lose HP. After that Beast gain MS and AS bonuses, and also bonus damage/lifesteal from passive.
    When casted, it have 2 slightly unbounded parts.
    (1) Create 'RECEIVED_DMG' variable (int). Make hero have a 98% of psysical resist and 98% of magical resist. It can't move or do something for 1.5 sec. Any received damage in that time of channeling add to 'RECEIVED_DMG' (self damage too). Also, remove XX% of current health (direct HP removal); removing divided to 10 parts (i.e. XX%/10), every 0.15 sec.
    - If get stun/disable, channelling will be interrupted, in that case trigger FMP passive using 'RECEIVED_DMG'. Passive will be triggered anyway.
    - If channel completed, apply AS/MS buff for 4 sec, and trigger passive using 'RECEIVED_DMG'. Then search for nearest enemy hero (if there is no hero, search for any enemy unit) in AoE.
    -- If there is no enemy units in AoE, you regain control.
    -- If enemy finded, Beast receive order to attack him. You regain control after 1 sec OR after 1 hit (i.e., Beast hitted enemy).

    (2) If any enemy unit walk into AoE (or was in AoE) when Beast channels (1.5 sec), then that unit will be entangled for 2.5 sec. Entangle have some animation (something like Warlock's Shadow Word, but have cyan color). Entangle deal YYY pure damage, divided to 5 parts, every 0.5 sec.
    [/tab]
    {|}
    Changelog:
    • April 17, 2012 | Posted.
    • April 17, 2012 | Some Int grow buff (1.1 => 1.4), FMP bonus damage/lifesteal numbers decreased (50/40-95/70 => 45/40-75/64), decreased GR throw range (500-560 => 430-505) and pushback (200 => 150), other minor changes.
    • April 17, 2012 | Added a hero icon and model animation.
    • April 18, 2012 | Some reworks in suggestion, added Testmap tab.
    • April 18, 2012 | Reworked FMP ang Rampage explanations, redused HJ stun AoE (325 => 225).
    • April 18, 2012 | Added Explanations tab, other minor changes.
    • April 18, 2012 | Added some explanations.
    • May 2, 2012 | Changed hero model to "felhound", added Rampage explanation.
    • May 30, 2012| Restructured suggestion. Decreased starting stats (STR: 24 => 22, AGI 19 => 18), and AGI growth (1.8 => 1.75). Added "Game role". Other minor changes.
    • May 31, 2012| Remaked HJ (buff: max AS => 2.5*base_AGI), changed GR (decrased buff duration: 4 => 2, slightly changed cast range and landing damage). Done some suggestion reworks.
    • May 31, 2012| Added Pain Shock debuff to FMP. Сompletely reworked Explanations tab. Reworked skills descriptions. Little tweaks. Other minor changes.
    • November 2, 2012| Suggestion reworked and updated.

    {|}
    Special thanks to:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] WaRcrAFtZonE to his idea on Hunter's Jump AGI buff and Pain Shock debuff.
    [​IMG] Adobe for good pictures editor
    [​IMG] IceFrog for making this OMGWTF game (DotA)
    [​IMG] Blizzard for making Warcraft World
    [/tab]
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2012
  2. Hi NeuroNoise! (Nice avatar BTW i love his work. you read Abara?)

    First of all, I think a good unit to use for this hero would be the zergling model. The posters on this forum like it more when you use WC3 vanilla (original) models, and the zergling model comes with WC3. Needless to say, the icon goes along with it.

    Stats: Well rounded. the strength gain seems a little high in comparison to the other starting stats, but its fine the way it is. One thing I would change is the base int. i would suggest maybe 13-14, and increase the gain to 1.3-1.5

    ADV. Stats: no comment.

    Skills

    Greed Rush: I really like this idea. reminds me of a cat playing with its food. the numbers for this skill are done well, but units shouldnt move back to where they were in 0.5 seconds, they should just continue what they were doing (attacking, moving, etc.). Another thing i would like to see is its ability to cancel a channeled ability on the units that are pushed away during the charge. the throw should also have a slightly decreased range, that could be incredibly too powerful in the beginning of the game, especially if you are laning at your tower.

    Hunter's Jump: Another good idea, but slightly unoriginal in the sense that Mirana already has leap. no further comments :)

    Feel my Pain: WOW! REALLY great idea, but maybe a LITTLE too powerful. 95% damage taken from heroes converted into bonus damage, and 70% lifesteal on the next attack, and half the damage on the one after. a little too powerful of a skill. Tweak the numbers to be less powerful, and it might fly.

    Rampage: I can definitely see the synergy this has with Feel My Pain, and i like the idea of losing control of your hero. But for how long do you lose control? It says the buff is 4 seconds, but what about that debuff? good idea though :)

    Overview: A solid hero concept, but some numbers need tweaking.

    could i ask you to return the favor and review my hero idea?
    http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=763075
     
  3. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    Propagate11235, thanks for detailed review!

    Idea about zerling model is very good, I think it will be main model.. =)
    Int gain improved, it really was needed.

    Greed Rush: my fault, forgot about towers.. numrers decreased.

    Hunter's Jump: Leap.. hmm, maybe. But he really needed skill to place his ulti without necessity to buying Dagger. It also good initiating/escape tool.. so.. oh, nvm, nvm.

    Feel my Pain: yeah. it may become something that people call "imba".. so, decreased.

    Rampage: after 1.5 seconds, it will be 1 second or 1 attack uncontrollable. About debuff - you losing a good amount of HP, it really not enought?.. :ninja:

    Anyway, thanks, I think it's more better now.. )

    P.s. Sure, I comment your hero idea a bit later =)
     
  4. It is looking a lot better!

    one thing i just noticed, the AoE for Hunter's jump is too wide. the way it is now, you wouldn't have to even actually HIT the target with your hero for the ministun to take effect. it should be about 200-250, so that when you leap, you have to be at least close to melee range for the ministun. At least, thats how i feel about it, especially when i read the skill description.

    Another opinion i have about Feel My Pain is that the cooldown should be a tiny bit longer, say maybe 2-3 seconds at level 4, especially since you are combining two very powerful effects.

    just my 2 cents :3
     
  5. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    Hunter's Jump: Yep, you are right, AoE is too big. Decreased.

    Feel My Pain: My fault. I think, there was a slight misunderstanding.. Feel My Pain adds to bonus damage only single-dealed portion of damage (single attack/one cats/one portion of DoT/etc.), if it was greater than 30, and passive not on cd. Damage portions not stacks. But, if you gain a single-dealed portion of damage, which is greater than previous portion, and passive is not on cd, buff will be replaced with new.
    Now that's more clear, I think? Give feedback, please :)

    p.s. I didn't understand about avatar first time :facepalm: Love Tsutomu works, too :) But I haven't readed Abara, unfortunately.. :no:
     
  6. honestly, the way feel my pain is right now is fine. my personal opinion is that the CD should be longer, but its your hero suggestion XD

    its a really cool skill, and it honestly doesn't need any more tweaking. the CD fits well with the amount of damage bonus you get.

    Abara is probably Tsutomu's best manga, IMHO. its so KICKASS!
     
  7. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    I think more about Feel My Pain. It not shouldn't be too overpowering, but in some circumstances it be able give you power to overcome DPS'er, or regain yours HP after heavy nukes. That's what I'm aimed to.

    p.s. already downloaded Abara :stuart:
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  8. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    Hmm.. all you posts are "LOL"s?.. :ninja:
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  9. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    Bump. Need a feedback.
     
  10. xXQuatchiXx

    xXQuatchiXx Well-Known Member

    I like the spells, I was wondering for the third skill so you get bonus damage everytime you are attacked, wouldn't the 2nd hit always be maxed % since after you do your first attack you'll just get damaged and the bonus resets.

    Edit: nvm didn't read the cd, cool hero none the less ^^ T-up
     
  11. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

  12. Ognjen19

    Ognjen19 Well-Known Member

    Nice ,man plz change it to Felbeast Zerling not fiting the icons and story.
     
  13. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    changed. :ninja:
     
  14. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

  15. ducks4thewin

    ducks4thewin Well-Known Member

    Osm really like this hero, my favorite hero so far in suggestions!
    I like his base stats and his growth stats, they are perfect.
    I get the first, second and fourth skills
    But am confused about 'feel my pain!'
    can you explain it further, im sorry, i know you have explained it already

    What i think you mean; someone hits your hero and the amount of damage he takes, a percentage of that damage is now his damage and he also get a lifesteal orb effect?

    What i know you mean; not sure :)
     
  16. ducks4thewin

    ducks4thewin Well-Known Member

    okay i read it again and all i got was life steal inst an orb effect, still dont get the damage bit...
    Done he 'reflect' the damage like spectre basically? (because he is hitting them back, basically)
    Or is more a block and then what damage he blocked he obtains for a few seconds?
     
  17. cluGAmERsy

    cluGAmERsy Well-Known Member

    Hello and welcome to the PD suggestion forums! First of the introduction is for the hero itself not for the hero suggestion. Fix that or just copy paste your intro outside the template and just leave the intro column blank or you put your intro about the hero itself in it. Do that and I MIGHT give you a review. It just bugs me that people put "their" own intro in the intro section.
     
  18. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    About FMP: Praedator receives all damage, not reflecting or blocking it. Being hit by hero attack or cast, he "memorize" amount of received damage (after reductions, ofc), and some percent of that damage will be added as bonus dmg on his next attack. Is it more clear now? :)

    Ok, I rework it now..
     
  19. ducks4thewin

    ducks4thewin Well-Known Member

    So he constantly has lifesteal yes?
    Yeh, clear now :) thnx
    Great idea would be so happy to see him 6.75 :p
     
  20. NeuroNoise

    NeuroNoise Well-Known Member

    Not constantly, this passive have cooldown. Like the Weaver's Geminate Attack.

    Let's Praedator have FMP lvl3, and deal X dmg on each attack.

    For example, Lina use Laguna Blade lvl1 on Praedator. If passive was on cooldown, you receive damage and won't have any bonuses.
    If passive was active, it goes on cd, you receive 450 magical damage (337,5 dmg after reduction), and also you receive (337,5 * 0.65) =~ 219 bonus dmg.
    So, you have (X+219) dmg for next attack, and 40% from (X+219) will be lifestealed. Second attack have only half bonus: (X+219/2) = (X+115), and 40% of (X+115) will be lifestealed. Third and other attacks won't have any bonuses, until passive will be triggered again.

    Another example: Void hit you with autoattack. It deal 85 physical dmg. If passive was on cooldown, you receive damage and won't have any bonuses.
    If passive was active, it goes on cd, you receive 85 physical damage (let it will be 50 dmg after reduction), and also you receive (50 * 0.65) =~ 32 bonus dmg.
    So, you have (X+32) dmg for next attack, and 40% from (X+32) will be lifestealed. Second attack have only half bonus: (X+ 32/2) = (X+16), and 40% of (X+16) will be lifestealed. Third and other attacks won't have any bonuses, until passive will be triggered again.

    Now it's clear, I think :)