[Scourge/Agi] Rebellion - Bandit

Discussion in 'Hero Ideas' started by Slaven, May 5, 2011.

  1. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    [tab]Hero Introduction|Skills|Other
    [tab]Hero Statistic|Hero Introduction|Background Story
    ß version


    [​IMG]| 23+2.4


    Missle speed:|1200
    Attack Range:|380
    Starting HP/MP:|492/256
    Sight range:|1800/800[/table]|[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][note=Focused Vindicta(F)][​IMG][/note][​IMG]
    [note=Shield Bash(B)][​IMG][/note][note=Negative Energy(V)][​IMG][/note][note=Vindicta][​IMG][/note][note=Deadly Throw(D)][​IMG][/note]​
    [NQB]Rebellion is a born killer. His is imbued with enormus power which grows from kill to kill. With his shadow powers, he can rule the battlefield with souls around him, forcing them to damage enemies. At close range he can bash an enemy with his shield, knocking himself and all enemies around the victim, while giving him a clear path to his target. He can use his powerful Deadly Throw which is hard to utilize. Also, he can use Negative Energy to buff enemies or allies with increased attack speed, leaving them to choose between harm and disarm. A formidable ganker, Rebellion's presence or rather absence on the battlefield is to be feared.[/NQB]{|}[​IMG]
    [NQB]Rebellion was once a proud servitor of Dalaran prior to its fall. Later he served the Human General Lord Garithos when he Attempted to prevent Prince Kael'thas from escaping his prison. However after that fiasco and Garithos' death,Rebellion was left wandering amongst the mountains of Alterac and took to stealing from any travelers he came across to stay alive. Once however he mistakenly attacked the nathrezim Balanar and was dragged in front of the Lich King where he was tortured for an impossibly long time. His spirit broken, he accepted to serve Ner'zhul, when he offered him the choice. Now he stalks the battlefield, sneaking upon the enemy, his deadly spears bringing them down one by one.[/NQB][/tab]{|}[tab]Shield Bash|Negative Energy|Vindicata|Deadly Throw
    [table=" "]
    Shield Bash

    * Ability Type: Active
    * Targeting Type: Enemy units
    * Ability Hotkey: B
    Rebellion charges on his target then hits it with his shield on impact, dealing damage and stunning it, and knocking back himself and nearby enemies. Nearby enemies take 200% of damage of that taken by the primary target.
    [table]Level | Manacost | Cooldown | Casting Range | Area of Effect | Duration | Allowed Targets | Effects
    1 | 150 | 12 | 600 | 250 | 2 | Enemy units | Stun primary target for 2 seconds, dealing 80 damage. Knockback 380 range.
    2 | 150 | 12 | 600 | 250 | 2 | Enemy units | Stuns primary target for 2 seconds, dealing 100 damage. Knockback 380 range.
    3 | 150 | 12 | 600 | 250 | 2 | Enemy units | Stuns primary target for 2 seconds, dealing 120 damage. Knockback 380 range.
    4 | 150 | 12 | 600 | 250 | 2 | Enemy units | Stuns primary target for 2 seconds, dealing 150 damage. Knockback 380 range. [/table]
    [table=" "]Notes:
    • Damage type: magical.
    • Rebellion is knocked back for 380 range.
    • All enemies within 250 range around primary target are knocked back for 380 range.
    • The mechanical units are not valid targets.

    [table=" "]
    Negative Energy
    * Ability Type: Active
    * Targeting Type: Unit
    * Ability Hotkey: V
    Empowers target with negative energy, increasing its attack speed. When under this effect, the unit will be damaged in exchange for recovering some mana on the fifth attack that it makes. [/table]
    [table]Level | Manacost | Cooldown | Casting Range | Area of Effect | Duration | Allowed Targets | Effects
    1 | 70 | 25 | 600 | N/A | 5 | Any Units | Increase attack speed by 35%. Damage for 100 hit points. Recover 50 mana.
    2 | 80 | 20 | 600 | N/A | 5 | Any Units | Increase attack speed by 50%. Damage for 150 hit points. Recover 100 mana.
    3 | 90 | 15 | 600 | N/A | 5 | Any Units | Increase attack speed by 65%. Damage for 200 hit points. Recover 150 mana.
    4 | 100 | 10 | 600 | N/A | 5 | Any Units | Increase attack speed by 80%. Damage for 250 hit points. Recover 200 mana. [/table]

    [table=" "]Notes:
    • Damage type: magical.
    • Negative Energy can be casted on an allied, enemy or neutral unit.
    • Rebellion can deny himself or allies using this skill.
    • The -disablehelp command will prevent an allied Rebellion from casting this spell on you.
    [tab] Main Skill | Sub Skill
    [table=" "]
    * Ability Type: Passive
    * Targeting Type: N/A
    * Ability Hotkey: I
    Rebellion's presence gives off an aura that releases the souls of those who are slain, causing them to damage a random enemy. If an enemy hero dies while under this aura, Rebellion permanently steals 1 Agility from it. He gains the sub-skill Focused Vindicata.
    [table]Level | Manacost | Cooldown | Casting Range | Area of Effect | Duration | Allowed Targets | Effects
    1 | N/A | N/A | N/A | 900 | 3 | Enemy units | 20 damage for dying unit.
    2 | N/A | N/A | N/A | 900 | 3 | Enemy units | 40 damage for dying unit.
    3 | N/A | N/A | N/A | 900 | 3 | Enemy units | 55 damage for dying unit.
    4 | N/A | N/A | N/A | 900 | 3 | Enemy units | 70 damage for dying unit. [/table]
    [TABLE=" "]Note:
    • Damage type: magical.
    • Souls move at speed of 300.
    • Rebellion will permanently steal 1 Agility from any enemy hero that dies within 900 range.
    • The -stats (-st) command can be used to know how much Agility you gained through this skill.[/table]
    Focused Vindicta
    [table=" "][​IMG]
    * Ability Type: Active
    * Targeting Type: Unit
    * Ability Hotkey: F
    Rebellion commands all souls that die under Vindicata to focus on the targeted hero while it is upon his presence.
    [table]Level | Manacost | Cooldown | Casting Range | Area of Effect | Duration | Allowed Targets | Effects
    0 | 50 | 15 | 600 | N/A | 10 | Enemy Unit | Order souls to focus targeted enemy. [/table]
    [TABLE=" "]
    •If target is under Focused Vindicata, but not in aura, souls won't focus him.



    [table=" "]
    Deadly Throw

    * Ability Type: Active
    * Targeting Type: Point
    * Ability Hotkey: D
    The Bandit throws a spear charged with dark energy to targeted ground area with a delay of 0.5 seconds. While the spear is in the ground, it gives him a Deadly buff, increasing his movement speed by 20% and causing him to lose 20 mana per second. [/table]
    [table]Level | Manacost | Cooldown | Casting Range | Area of Effect | Duration | Allowed Targets | Effects
    1 | 150 | 20 | 800 | 300 | 10 | Enemy units | Spear deal 275 damage +1x the agility of Rebellion to target.
    2 | 225 | 12 | 1000 | 300| 10 | Enemy units | Spear deal 325 damage +1x the agility of Rebellion to target.
    3 | 300 | 7 | 1200 | 300 | 10 | Enemy units | Spear deal 375 damage +1x the agility of Rebellion to target. [/table]
    [TABLE=" "]Note:
    • Damage type: magical.
    • Deadly buff duration is 10 seconds.
    • Bandit can pick up spear from the ground and cancel the deadly buff.
    • To pick up the spear Bandit needs to pass over it.
    • Picking up the spear cause loosing movement speed boost and mana drain (deadly buff).
    • Spear hit targeted ground area 0.5 seconds after casting.
    Rebellion lose 20 mana per second from activating of Deadly buff. He lose totaly 200 mana at end of buff duration if he don't pickup spear.

    All suggestions are welcome.
    If you like this hero, T-Up.
    If you don't like this hero because there are some minor problems or flaws, you can T-Null and state the problem and i will address it.
    If you don't like this hero at all and and see many major problems with it, you can T-Down.
    If you have any ideas,suggestions or even criticisms with reasons to improve this hero, i will consider them.
    BiG thanks to The Godpalyer on hero introduction and background story
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  2. Wrooks

    Wrooks Well-Known Member

    Re: In progres - Shadowboxer

    you have seven spells there is only enough room for 6
  3. O_xD

    O_xD Well-Known Member

    Re: In progres - Shadowboxer

    Add another simple attack modifier(short cooldown, low mana cost, small damage increase) instead of garrote, it would add combo points(up to 5)
    and kidney shot instead of vanish, stun duration based on combo points.
    Ambush can be automatically triggered when you break stealth from behind cos it aint an ambush if the enemy expects it.
    way too confusing

    u mean like kelen's dagger or hearth of tarrasque?

    Edit after seeing your third: nvm
  4. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: In progres - Shadowboxer

    ??? where you see 7 spells??? U didn't even read it, did you?
    One skill give 3 active skills, and 3 skills which are for them self.

    I where thinking about that stile, what is really in WoW, that thing with combo points, but i am not sure that there is possible to make adding combo points in wc3. Even if it is possible to do it, i am not sure that its possible to make skill that have effect based on combo points.

    And ambush, if i put that he is triggering from behind it will be too similar to riki's backstab, so i can only change name so it don't be "ambush".

    ambush(backstab), garrote(rupture), kidney shot(cheap shot), poisons, vanish, and stealth.

    I add only base skill that u use mostly with rogue in WoW.
    I won't chance anything now
    When i finish it i will start making changes.

    And stealth disable, its like dagger.
  5. tusuksate

    tusuksate Well-Known Member

    Re: In progres - Shadowboxer

    He's OP...
    and make his 1st skill his ulti, then change the ulti, it's useless cause u already have skill2, why have 2 invisible skill?
  6. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: In progres - Shadowboxer

    Its still in progress, balance would be done later.
  7. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: Shadowboxer - Brigand

    Its done, give a comment please
  8. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: Shadowboxer - Brigand

    *Sneaky ability don't give agility to Shadowboxer when enemy hero die, anymore.
    *Sneaky ability increase vision while Shadowboxer is invisible.
    -Envenom poison:
    *If enemy hero die while he poisoned Shadowboxer permanently steal 1 agility.
    -Deadly throw:
    *Deadly throw is now thrown in Shadowboxer's direction.
    *If spear hit enemy from back it deal 100/200/300 bonus damage instead of 2x damage.
  9. Masterja

    Masterja Well-Known Member

    Re: Shadowboxer - Brigand

    This hero reminds me of mine, they have similar skills, however i didn't steal any, so don't get all angry at me :)

    Anyway, nice hero, heres a short review:

    1st skill: Nice, but not really practical for offense, and thats where hero shines. I mean you make gap between yourselves wider, letting enemy escape easier. I guess it was mean to push close enemies away, to get few more shots before they come in, but really thats an escape skill.

    2nd skill: Similar to Rexxars owl invis and Lanayas meld, but its cool.

    3rd skill: I really like this one! We got str steal (pudge), int steal (nort), and no agi steal :). Well slark isn't counted, he doesn't permanently steal...

    4th skill: Huge range, imba damage from back, and low cooldown. Only spell i dont like here. I mean every 10 seconds, you get an omgwtfggwp spear with Laguna blade damage (when farmed up, and stolen lots of agi), and it has range like Leonidas spear that harmed that Persian guy, forgot his name...

    Also 1 more thing i don't like it - he was supporsed to be based on stealth, not DPS imho.

    Overall T-up on hero!
  10. usilorso

    usilorso Well-Known Member

    Re: Shadowboxer - Brigand

    i don't like the name
    rest is ok
  11. Labyrinth Suite

    Labyrinth Suite Well-Known Member

    Re: Shadowboxer - Brigand

    Shield Bash - Seem to synergyze well with Ultimate (Cleaning vision for the target), although I'd say it's a bit too riksy for a ranged character to charge in just to deal some bonus damage, although, if you made it to be a gamble, then ignore this comment.

    Sneaky - This is one skill I can't seem to find what is it use in this hero. While it grants invisibility, it costs mobility, which makes it a bad choice on a hero who got to land skill shots (Deadly Throw). Sure the bonus vision is great and so is the "wind walk" effect when you start moving (it helps to set a deadly throw), but in the end you need to be standing still for 1.75 seconds, that's like you've been hit by a magic missile every time you used this skill, and is pretty annoying to do that when you are moving around to land a skillshot on the enemy.

    Envenom Poison - Ugh, does this skill poison every time the target is hit, or is it only a minor chance? A certain drow ranger would be mad at this. The Agi bonus is pretty huge, and the so is the slow (at level 1 50% movement slow?). I'd say tone it down a bit, enough to make it hard to flee but still possible.

    Deadly Throw- Seems kinda good, I'll do some mathematic just to check if the damage is groundbreaking or not:
    Lvl 8 - Max Current Poison and Spear Throw Level 1
    Not From Back =126 | Back = 226
    Lvl 13 - Max Current Poison and Spear Throw Level 2
    Not From Back = 233 | Back = 433
    Lvl 18 - Max Current Poison and Spear Throw Level 3
    Not From Back = 276 | Back = 576

    No items are taken in account. With a Eaglehorn, Agi Treads and 3 Wraith:

    Lvl 18 - Max Current Poison and Spear Throw Level 3
    Not from Back = 436 | Back 736

    Seems it scale pretty well if you actually start farming up the agility and agility items, but it would be better if it started stronger and the scalability was lower, currently I'm not sure if it is a good idea add a hard to land skill who deal only 126 damage if you aren't chasing someone at early game levels.
  12. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: Shadowboxer - Brigand

    Thank you on T-up
    but Deadly Throw not so imba, its not direct spell, its thrown in direction of Shadowboxer.
    So anyway it can hit a creep on its way,
    BTW Shield Bash is there to help about aiming with ultimate.
    Who told you that he was supposed to be based on stealth?
    U maybe read this when it was still in progress when it had 2 invisibility skills.
    I think this is better there is a lot heroes based on stealth.

    I like name.
    If you don't u shall suggest new one and i will think to maybe change it.

    I like this type of comment, when guy really read a tread.

    Shield bash- maybe u didn't notice but he knock back self also, so he isn't near enemies.

    Sneaky- at start Deadly throw had a cast time, and i decided to remove it, cuz its to similar to Sniper's ult.
    But its mostly to help you with aiming or when you go to gank sm1 (stay in wood till you get invisibility then go on)
    There where also ideas about: *unstoppable vision instead of bonus vision.
    If you think that unstoppable vision is better than bonus vision pls say it...

    Envenom - Chance is 30/40/50/60 but i will listen you and remove it on 17% on all levels and increase duration from 3 sec on all levels to 3/4/5/6 sec

    Deadly throw - (envenom lvl 4)
    U didn't count agility that he get per level (2.9 agility per level)
    lvl8: 73 agility - 146 damage ˇ/ 246 from back
    with agi treads and 2x wraith band :
    93 agility - 186 damage / 286 from back
    lvl11: 82 agility - 246 damage / 446 from back
    with agi treads and 2x wraith band and lets says yasha
    118 agility - 354 damage / 554 from back
    lvl16: 96 agility - 384 damage / 684 from back
    with agi treads 2x WB yasha and lets says eaglehorn
    147 agility - 588 damage / 888 from back

    seems balanced but still with this much low cooldown its pretty imba
    i will increase cooldown, and put rescal 2/3/4x to 3/3.5/4x the agility.

  13. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: Shadowboxer - Brigand

    Update based on comments:
    Duration rescaled from 3 to 3/4/5/6 seconds
    Chance reduced from 30/40/50/60 to 17% on all levels
    Deadly throw:
    Cooldown rescaled from 10 to 30/25/20 seconds.
    Damage rescaled from 2/3/4x the agility to 3/3.5/4x agility.
  14. Labyrinth Suite

    Labyrinth Suite Well-Known Member

    Re: Shadowboxer - Brigand

    Shield Bash - My bad, haven't taken account he would be at his max range at any time (380), seems great. Does the knockback have travel time or is it isntant like Flamebreak?

    Unstoppable Vision is a area where you don't really want to mess with, if it is anything big it will be too much and if it is too small it can't be made useful. One of Balanar good points is the fact he cant be ganked because of unblocked sight (only at Night), and he requires a Aghanim to do it so.
    Although I'm not saying it is impossible to implement it without being too game breaking, there gotta be a point where it is useful and not strong, but my only issue with this skill is the fact you gotta stand still to make it work, I'm sure the problem is regarding Rikimaru ultimate who would be weak if you didn't add the fade, but you could make the bad effect something else instead.

    Standing still on a hero with skillshot and with such short range is hard.

    It is still pretty strong. 30 Agility is the amount Drow Ranger obtain from the second tier of her Ultimate, and while this restricts you to hit one target to get the bonus, it's not like you'd be trying to hit various targets anyway. (Not counting with possible 1 Agility you will gain per gank in the game, if not more since it only requires his target to be poisoned)

    6 second 50% slow is extremely strong too, it basically makes him able to kite even a Thristy Strygwyr. You should definetly tone it down, the chance you add on the skill to trigger shouldn't make it extremely powerful when it lands and useless when it doesn't, that just end in people stacking attackspeed (Like MoM Baratrums/Faceless Voids) instead of the real role of the hero (who seems to be pinpointing, poisoning then throwing spears at a specified target).

    You should make it a higher chance, but small duration, reasonable slow (25~40%, and just for reference, Gondar's Jinada is 25% slow while Drow's Arrow is 40%), keep some minor bonus agility with some agility gain, but not enough to make some other character ultimate seem stupid (he got a pretty big Agility growth already).

    I counted the base agility+growth, I just didn't count items with it (just for the sake of simplicity).

    Actually I was thinking the cooldown was fine and all it needed was a better scaling. The problem is that you are balancing it along the idea that every throw will be a hit, but since this is a "aim and shoot" skill, there are gonna be quite a small number of hits (probably next to the amount of good PotM arrows, unless you forgot to tell it doesn't hit creeps) and even lower amount of hits from behind. For me the problem it had was regarding the initial damage (which was too low) but you fixed it now.

    I'm not with the head to do mathcrafting now but IIRC all heroes have a inert 25% Resistance to spelldamage, so you have to consider that in the values of the nuke.

    (Now noticing, Making Ethereal Blade on him would make nuking enemies a easy trick since most people try to run back when afflicted by with Ethereal, it makes target take higher spell damage and slow it considerably)
  15. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: [Scourge/Agi]Shadowboxer - Brigand

    Yea, i agree with your comment about it. I also don't like to much this skill, but IMO this hero need some type of wind walk, but i don't want to be to similar to already existing invisibilities.
    So if you have idea, i am here to listen you....
    Envenom poison:
    3 sec duration on all levels;
    chance 10/15/20/25%
    slow 30%
    agility 5/10/15/20 (Trax agility bonus is 15, but its passive so i think passive 15 agility is better than this)

    Do you agree with this? is it balanced?
  16. Labyrinth Suite

    Labyrinth Suite Well-Known Member

    Re: [Scourge/Agi]Shadowboxer - Brigand

    Add something that allows him to position himself easy after closing gap with Shield Bash, since your character is going to have to autoattack a bit before launching a spear to apply the poison, how about it works like "After X attacks" (like old Storm passive) or "Every X seconds your next attack" (Kunkka and Gondar passive) but it makes you invisible, high MS, phase units and have sight of your target for a short while, like, 6 seconds? It would allow you to reposition yourself, know where your target is and launch a perfect Deadly Throw/Shield Bash at him.

    This is only a suggestion I'm making, if this doesn't go the same way you want the hero to be played as, just try to think of something who would support that gameplay the same way you want it to be.

    Much better.
  17. MassBalance

    MassBalance Well-Known Member

    Re: [Scourge/Agi]Shadowboxer - Brigand

    his third skill is way too strong 30 bonus agi at level 7? are u on crack?
    his ult is also pretty imba strong... unless you make it physical damage then it might scale well.
  18. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: [Scourge/Agi]Shadowboxer - Brigand

    Update based on comments:
    Envenom poison:
    Duration reduced from 6/5/4/3sec to 3 sec
    chance reduced from 30/40/50/60% to 25%
    Agility bonus reduced from 15/20/25/30 to 5/10/15/20
    Slow reduced from 50% to 20/25/30/35%
  19. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: [Scourge/Agi]Shadowboxer - Brigand

    I just reduced his third skill.
    and BTW we where counting ult's damage, its not that much imba strong... and also its hard to hit enemy cuz it can hit creep, and targeting type is instant like targeting at shadowraze...
  20. Slaven

    Slaven Well-Known Member

    Re: [Scourge/Agi]Shadowboxer - Brigand

    •Shield bash update:
    -note updated.
    •Sneaky update:
    -Sneaky is now active spell.
    -Sneaky now give invisibility as active spell.
    -Sneaky now give agility bonus to shadowboxer while invisible and few seconds after braking invisibility:
    agility: 5/10/15/20 while invisible and 2/3/4/5 seconds after braking invisibility.
    -Sneaky don't give vision bonus anymore.
    -note updated.
    •Envenom poison update:
    -Envenom poison don't give agility bonus anymore.
    -Envenom poison silence for 1 second every time when shadowboxer apply it.
    -note update.