Russia bombing ISIS in Syria

Discussion in 'World News & Debates' started by TheImperial, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Arcana_Arcanus

    Arcana_Arcanus Well-Known Member

    Just a small post to show you folks some examples on the extent of lies by russkie's officials and data manipulation:

    Lets play a game! We'll call it "Guess what russkies bombed instead of an oil refinery":

    [YOUTUBE]FPfPNwhB7Ec[/YOUTUBE]


    [YOUTUBE]vKbA_g-4zEE[/YOUTUBE]



    Judge yourself :cat:


    And know better than to blindly believe any reproduction of russian statements by any western media, especially on circlejerking places such as reddit. Literally anything you ever see or hear that includes russian reports should be taken with few tonnes of salt, or better, disregarded immediately without even reading.

    For instance - the story with "proofs on turkey-isis oil trade relations" by the russians is full of horseshit from top to bottom. However reposting dozens of posts on that is not a something I have time for, maybe on the weekend if I don't forget. It's kind of sad that there is very little places in english web that really hold deep analysis on Middle East related things, those are to some extent paradoxically - russian, arab, french and israeli forums (many of them already closed for general public because of waves of trolls, unfortunately.
     
  2. Eli_Green

    Eli_Green Well-Known Member

    And, the US has been bombing Yemen to hell and back while all this is going on and no one is touching that.

    Get your head out of the cold war, everyone caught up in this has their own goals. It's naive to state otherwise and even more naive to try and claim here are good guys and bad guys.

    But what Russia is saying is agreeable by most people, cooperate as a group to isolate the threat, so regardless of what may or may not be the end goal their statement appeals to a lot of people, even these in the west.

    America on the other hand is indignantly sticking to their reckless foreign policy that has set the world on course for another major conflict. Destabilizing foreign countries with unstable groups to achieve desired results is irresponsible on their part and is not justifiable by saying but Russia or X nation is lying.

    I'm not defending Russia for what they have doe or what they are doing, just saying that to the average joe, they seem to have the right idea here. People don't want the war thhat the American brass does, it's not hard to see why they would to be honest.
     
  3. Arcana_Arcanus

    Arcana_Arcanus Well-Known Member

    So much whataboutism its not even funny.

    How it is even related to what russkies and shia coalition doing? What do you know of the so called "shadow war in Yemen" and how it is related to what's going in Yemen right now?

    The polarized concepts of good and evil never applied to any war. And yet there are simple fact checks that disallow any attempt to bleach either side. There are those that commit attrocities and those who are the victims of them. There are those who conquer and those who defend. There are those who lie and those on whom those lies are directed. All sides are guilty of many crimes. Some of them have it as their policy.

    What do you even mean? How can you be so guillible? This is basically a premise of "lal i hate amurica so whoever says bad things of them is automatically right". You basically crossed out whatever you stated in your previous paragraph. Whatever russkies do is a basic populism, but with a difference that there is not just an empty space behind those slogans, no, there is consistently exactly opposite action to what they say.

    Russians say "We destroyed 100 ISIS headquarters and killed 30000 terrorists"?
    The reality - most of their strikes are misses, 99% are directed at FSA rebels, 50% directed on rebels directly on ISIS-FSA frontline so ISIS gains more ground than in half a year before, many hit markets and other civilian areas, also the increase of refugees due to russian air strikes increased literally 4-fold at least. Not to say that ISIS has no 100 headquarters.

    And it goes and goes and goes on, and a massive russian state media propaganda creates this imaginary wonderworld for a rebeleous western teen that likes everything that the current establishment hates.


    This is whataboutism. You only know more about american related conflicts because your media concentrates on them. You literally have no idea on anything that your media does not report to you. America did many things wrong (or maybe it was only made to look like wrong, and was actually planned this way from the start?) and I never in any post before said otherwise. And yet how does this justifies what Russia does in Syria (I do remind you that this topic is on Russia\Syria not on America\world), or before that in Ukraine, in Georgia, in Chechnya, in Azerbaijan, in Moldova - that brought so much misery to people that are outside of your media bubble?

    Average Joe has no damn idea what is going on in Syria, and even less on what russians are doing there. Average Joe dislikes the government of US for whatever reason and likes to demonize them for whatever action they ever did. Average Joe likes listening to whatever "source" that would relate to his narrow worldview and abscence of history knowledge, no matter the quality or agenda. Yes yes, can you imagine, there are countries in the world with state regulated media.
     
  4. Eli_Green

    Eli_Green Well-Known Member

    You literally just did what you claimed I did, but for America. What are you trying to argue here?


    Also

    >baseless assumptions, ad hom

    You're no better than I am m8.

    Point is, the average joe doesn't want world war 3, and from what is presented in western media, Putin is the only one attempting to do so.

    Do you or do you not agree with this.
     
  5. Arcana_Arcanus

    Arcana_Arcanus Well-Known Member

    Is this a way they teach you to present your arguments in western schools? You literally just spit on everything I said with a simple "no u". Please care to elaborate on every subject you disagree with, if you want me to spend any of mine afterwork hours on this more or less meanigfull discussion.

    Also what is you call "ad hominem" here? The fact you do not know pretty much anything on Syria war? That is not a label nor offense, that is a same fact as if I'd call a bold person bold. I am not inserting any trigger warnings here.

    This is a narrow position, a narrow representation of the many different positions in different western media, a narrow representation of world affairs based on simple and understandable (to your average Joe) slogans like "world war 3" - in other word - sophism.

    Do I agree with what you said though? I will quote Vonnegut: "Wars impend on us like glaciers". What must happen will happen no matter what you or I can do, eventually.

    ---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:41 PM ----------

    A small addition on what I said a bit before - on russian "proofs of dowla's oil flowing into Turkey"


    But as you can see, gullible people swallow this easily.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  6. KomitaMKD

    KomitaMKD Member

    God bless Putin, he did more in the first 3 days than NATO "humanitarian" bombings with years. Where USA entered, that country is in chaos and thats a FACT.
     
  7. imlOvInit

    imlOvInit Well-Known Member

    Agree with you .
     
  8. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator

    That doesn't have to do with proficiency, but rather intentions. Putin is openly supporting Assad's regime, whereas the US doesn't support it so they generally avoid large scale bombings against rival factions (there are several and multifaceted).

    After all, Putin doesn't do this out of good will, you know. Assad is Russia's only ally in the region. Losing him would be a significant blow to Russia hence Putin is very actively trying to prevent that from happening.
     
  9. KomitaMKD

    KomitaMKD Member

    yes he is doing this because he is allied with syria but what would u do? support uknown terrorists and extremists like in libya?
     
  10. Rickaby

    Rickaby Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
  11. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator

    I wouldn't, but any politician would (including Putin) had their interests been involved in the conflict in a way they needed such assistance.
     
  12. KomitaMKD

    KomitaMKD Member

    Putin didn't started conflicts in Africa, Asia and Ukraine. They were all started by western countries.

    ---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 PM ----------

    Western countries were all colonizators and of course they would have better infrastructure which results with better economy. Something what eastern european countries don't have. But the crime rates were so low and there were no murders or drug dealers. My parents and grandparents are telling me about the life in Yugoslavia and they say it was very good. No major differences poor/rich everyone employed with free health care and etc.. Can you say that was bad? Now we dont have those. Plus Yugoslavia was 3 or 4rd in Europe by military power at that time.. Of course western countries didn't wanted to lose their absolute status so they decided to crush Yugoslavia internally, USSR too..
     
  13. Petique

    Petique Well-Known Member

    ^I don't think that Yugoslavia is a good example. Even though it was a socialist dictatorship, Tito cut ties with the Soviets in 1949 and relied on the west much more than on the east. Also Yugoslavia didn't have those characteristics that the Soviet union and its eastern puppet governments had (long ques, money completely losing its worth, prosecution of anyone that had a higher degree, government disabling the rights to travel abroad etc.). Yugoslavia was neutral and was very different from the other eastern European countries at the time.
     
  14. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Well-Known Member

    Then who did? :cat:
     
  15. Arcana_Arcanus

    Arcana_Arcanus Well-Known Member

    There is a thread literally below this one in which these myths were kindly debunked by me.

    On the other hand, it is easy to compare the prewar life in Baltic states, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary, East Germany and of course, East Prussia - and the state of being in, say, late 70s. I don't think that life in these places was able to climb prewar levels until the total destruction of defunct soviet pseudocommunist system. Quite frankly, aggressive containment of communism by Western powers and the US was a very kind and selfless thing to do.
    I'd also add that Tito's decision to cut ties with USSR was one of his most rational, and he indeed was able to make Yugoslavia work, despite all the unresolved tension, in part because of this decision.
     
  16. Ostarion

    Ostarion Well-Known Member

    You do know NATO (aka USA) wanted to build a military base in Crimea? It was do or die for Putin.
     
  17. TheImperial

    TheImperial Well-Known Member

    :cat: oh please, I'm too tired to respond to your bullcrap about your "debunks"

    For those who's interested I suggest too look up ukr media reports of daily "muh rus invasion", "agents of Kremlin" and other crap. It's literally a parallel universe totally detouched from reality
     
  18. KomitaMKD

    KomitaMKD Member

    Western countries were all colonizators and of course they would have better infrastructure which results with better economy. Something what eastern european countries don't have. But the crime rates were so low and there were no murders or drug dealers. My parents and grandparents are telling me about the life in Yugoslavia and they say it was very good. No major differences poor/rich everyone employed with free health care and etc.. Can you say that was bad? Now we dont have those. Plus Yugoslavia was 3 or 4rd in Europe by military power at that time.. Of course western countries didn't wanted to lose their absolute status so they decided to crush Yugoslavia internally, USSR too.. and okay lets avoid this talk here..

    ---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

    HAHAHA ARE YOU SERIOUS?? :wallbash:

    NATO with USA started all those "revolutions" in Ukraine, North Africa and Middle East. Soros tried in Macedonia too, but failed. USA&EU Ambassadors picking their noses in our internal affairs.. They're the biggest scum in world.
     
  19. Petique

    Petique Well-Known Member

    ^ And the US for some insane reason thinks that supporting Albanian separatists is a good idea. Now that Kosovo is independent the country is in an even worse situation when it was an autonomous territory of Serbia, not to mention that its self-proclaimed independence was completely against the law, they didn't even vote, there was no referendum, yet they are being supported by the west even though every criminal smuggler goes through Kosovo and Albania and then to Europe.
    Europe and the US shot themselves in the foot with the whole thing and now they are doing it again with letting the migrant swarm in while the US is supporting Al qaeda. Hats off to you gents, keep up the good work!
     
  20. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator

    Actually, the revolutions started because of the overwhelming discontent of the people there. What USA did was to support those revolutions and intervene. Ukrainian people who didn't want a pro-Russia government protested against it, people in totalitarian regimes such as in Egypt protested against them.

    Also, let's not mix up our facts. USA intervened in Syria and Libya for their own gains and geopolitical ambitions. Blaming the EU or NATO internal policies is ridiculous especially since this shows how "anti-West" propaganda showcases ignorance in how "the West" is comprised of extremely diverse nations with very different ambitions.

    Which EU ambassador sabotaged Syria or Ukraine? Luxembourg? Austria? Malta? Not to mention neutral EU countries or those who are not even in NATO. Sweeping generalizations against "the West" are a pedestrian take on geopolitics.