Monkey King Bar [Recipe and True Strike]

Discussion in 'Remakes' started by Lithary, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Monkey King Bar [Small Remake]

    Anyway, just to make MKB build more logical in my opinion and make it worth it's money, while also fixing a problem with True Strike.

    [nqb]Monkey King Bar:

    [​IMG]

    [tab]Version A:|Version B:
    Demon Edge (2400)
    Javelin (1500)
    Quarterstaff (900)
    Total: 4800

    Bonuses:

    +85 damage
    +20 attack speed
    Mini-Bash (passive) - Gives 35% chance to deal 100 bonus damage and 0.01 second stun.
    {|}
    Demon Edge (2400)
    Javelin x 2 (1500 x 2)
    Total: 5400

    Bonuses:

    +90 damage
    Mini-Bash (passive) - Gives 35% chance to deal 125 bonus damage and 0.1 second stun.[/tab]

    And now, to get rid of the main problem in my opinion, the True Strike.
    I think that this is a bit imba and should be nerfed.
    It makes skills like evasion and blind totally useless.
    Imagine if there is a skill that makes you unable to get stunned passively.
    Some might say that Gem does the same for invisible units with True Sight and that BKB does it for all spellcasters with Avatar, but True Sight can be countered (Gem falls out when hero gets killed, wards can be countered with wards and dust is only temporary) while BKB Avatar only last for short period (starts with 10 sec and ends up on 5 sec) and has a long cooldown (starts with 80 sec and ends up with 55).
    Anyway, there are several solutions that I came up with to nerf True Strike.
    Tell me what do you think about them, witch one do you prefer and post your own ideas also (you will get credit of them, don't worry).

    Solution 1:
    True Strike only works for attack that triggered mini-bash.
    Dynes proved that it works (thanks dude!).

    Solution 2:
    Make it activate effect so you get True Strike for the limited period of time.
    Duration: 10 sec.
    Cooldown: 20 sec.
    Mana cost: 75 MP.
    Effect: Hero gainst True Strike ability for the duration of effect.

    Soulution 3 (1+2):
    True Strike only works for attack that triggered mini-bash and make also an activate effect for limited period of time.
    Duration: 10 sec.
    Cooldown: 20 sec.
    Mana cost: 75 MP.
    Effect: Hero gainst True Strike ability for the duration of effect.

    Solution 4:
    Remove True Strike from MKB completely and give it to Divine Rapier.

    Soulution 5:
    When True Strike is on, damage bonus of Monkey King Bar is reduced from +85 to +40.

    (Credit for solution 5 goes to Dr_JP.)

    Solution 6:
    a) Keep current toggle system, but activated True Strike will drain 15MP/second. (One I prefer.)

    b) Keep current toggle system, but activated True Strike will drain 10MP/second. (One The ][nquisitor prefers.)

    (Credit for solution 6 goes to The ][nquisitor.)
    [/nqb]


    Changelog:

    • October 25th, 2010.
    - Added a buff suggestion for MKB and buffed recipe.
    - Changed True Strike activate duration from 5 to 10 seconds.


    • November the 13th, 2010.
    - Added a new solution, #6.

    • January the 26th, 2011.
    - Added a 'B' version of MKB remake.

    Well, that's that about MKB.
    I would like to hear your opinions on this.
    Discussion time, go!

    ____________________________________

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
  2. Silent-man

    Silent-man Well-Known Member

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    In my opinion, true strike isnt as far as you see it imbalanced nad I would leave it as it is. I think MKB is rarely seen in competitive games and that nerf would make it even worse. Anyway I think your solution 1 isnt really a solution, because AFAIK minibach proc. chance is counted on a successful attack not on all attacks, so you cant really bash on miss attacks.
    T-down for me
     
  3. JJE92

    JJE92 Moderator

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    TUp for solution 2, I like it and Imo its more balanced than the current one while still keeping it useful :)
     
  4. Monsterlord

    Monsterlord Banned

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    Making more than one? Who in their right mind would ever buy two mkbs?
     
  5. Dynes

    Dynes Well-Known Member

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    1.
    I can leave Frost Arrows on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010
  6. Dr_JP

    Dr_JP Well-Known Member

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    About bonuses and price:

    I would say to remove +15 ias, once it doesn't have quatterstaff into recipe anymore.

    Or use this: Demon Edge, Javelin, Quarterstaff and Blade of Attack -> 5250 gold cost, +15 ias and +70 or +75 damage. Mini-bash same.
    ____________________________________
    About True Strike:

    What about 60-40 damage when True Strike is activated?
    Choose number you want!

    or no mini-bash while True Strike is active.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010
  7. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    I used to do that on my old Phantom Assasin build. :D
    I have a much better build in my opinion now, but 3xMKB on PA is not that bad.

    Well, it can be changed to work on an attack and not successful attack.
    I think it's possible.
    Even so, I've made a 2nd solution just in case.

    Thx. :)

    I will put this version of recipe instead of 1st one I made.

    Great idea!
    I will put it as 3rd solution.
     
  8. Monsterlord

    Monsterlord Banned

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    Agh!
    Sorry, it's a typo! >.<
    I meant to say 2xMKB.
    But really, 2xMKB can be really useful sometimes due to constant mini-stunning.
    I know that it might not sound something special, but it really is lethal and can mess up enemy pretty nicely.
    Anyway, this is my current PA build:
    - Power Treads (agi/str)
    - Linken's Sphere/BKB
    - Etheral Blade
    - Satanic
    - Battle Fury
    - Sange and Yasha/Manta Style
    Any good? :Đ
     
  10. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    Bump!
     
  11. Whitefang

    Whitefang Well-Known Member

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    True strike exist to counter miss chance. Removing it will make agility hero uncounterable at late game.
     
  12. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Re: Monkey King Bar [Recipe, Bonuses and True Stri

    I didn't remove it, I nerfed it so it isn't passive or if it is kept as passive, that damage of MKB is reduced.
    Keeping it as it is is too imba.
    Plus, I never had troubles of taking agility heroes before.
    Evasion skills are strong, but not that strong.
    Only Evasion skill that could use a change/nerf is Troll Warlord's Blind.
    Still, for example, to make MKB True Strike active ability for duration of time is perfectly fine.
    That way, you could counter those agility heroes and still not be imba.
     
  13. Kwanz4

    Kwanz4 Well-Known Member

    T-Down.

    If it wasn't for MKB, things such as Pandaren Brewmaster's drunken haze in tandem with drunken brawler would be way too imba.
     
  14. Dynes

    Dynes Well-Known Member

    No need, you just need to set the same chance value for the crit/bash and your'e set.
     
  15. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Dude, that last only for 7 seconds!
    And the example you mentioned there is actually reason why the it should be remade like this.
    His current True Strike makes Manigix's 2 skills almost completely useless!
    With this remake I am suggesting, evasion based skills would still be useful and people could be able to counter them properly while not making them totally useless.
    Imagine if Gem gave True Sight, +80 damage, +15 IAS, 35% chance to mini-bash and does not drop upon death!
    Also, like I said several times already.
    Imagine if there was skill that makes you immune to stun permanently, that would be imba, just like True Strike is.

    Hmmm, but then they could activate at different moments that way.
     
  16. Dynes

    Dynes Well-Known Member

    No, believe me.
    You'll need two separate skills (with the same chance values if you want) for them to activate separately, I have a testmap for that.
     
  17. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Well then it's OK. :)
    Could you give me download link for test-map so I can post it here for people (and me :p) to see?
     
  18. Dynes

    Dynes Well-Known Member

    Well, no, but here's a more disk space friendly version for you. (=
    View attachment 28018

    3 types of MKB, the "partial" one stuns for 1 second, so you'll see.

    E:
    I know about the MKB always getting into slot 1 after swicthing (yes, click to switch between the three), and its given damage (which is absent).

    But I forgot to modify the creep reduction table for Exp (so heroes will only level up to 5). But you can just set their levels to 10 in the editor anyway.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  19. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Thanks!
    I will check this out during the next few days.
    I have some problems with WC3TFT so I'm not sure if I'll be able to check it right away.
    Still, thanks a million! :)
     
  20. Lithary

    Lithary Well-Known Member

    Mass bump!