Life Break/Charge of Darkness

Discussion in 'Advanced Mechanics' started by Yago, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. Yago

    Yago Well-Known Member

    Searched and found nothing.

    Ok, if Huskar charges at a Barathrum charging that same Huskar, will he get stunned? How is this determined?

    I once had a game where I dodged his stun while doing that, though I might remember wrong (though I don't think I am) and I'm unsure if there is a scenario where Huskar would still be stunned.

    Basically: Which happens first? The Charge stun or Life Breaks MI removal?
     
  2. Heraklinos

    Heraklinos Well-Known Member

    Barathrum's charge stun target when it's closer than 100 range, he charges at the speed of 425-650 from lvl 1-4 and Huskar "charges" him at the speed of 1000 which means that they're charging each other at the speed of about 1425-1650, which results in they spend about 0.07-0.06 second in that 100 range. Charge of Darkness checks every 0.02 second if the target is within 100 range, which the duration of the "100 range period" is about 3 times greater than that. Barathrum will attempt to stun the magic-immuned Huskar and fail, there's no way for Huskar to be stunned.
     
  3. Clogon

    Clogon Well-Known Member

    This would be 100% true if the stun was instantaneous but the stun is from the trigger creating a dummy unit and ordering it to cast stormbolt. This means that it is possible for this to not be the result all every time (there are other factors too).
     
  4. Heraklinos

    Heraklinos Well-Known Member

    I forgot about that, thanks Clogon. What's the speed of the stormbolt from dummy and how long does it take for it to cast stormbolt then? (I assume that dummies use 0 cast point right?)
     
  5. Clogon

    Clogon Well-Known Member

    Going from this topic:
    http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363447&highlight=frame+dummy

    Casting point: 0

    WC3 frame rate: 0.005

    If you include:

    1) the exact intervals at which the 2 hero are moved the by triggers
    2) the exact conditions in which huskar's magic immunity is removed
    3) if the magic immunity removal/storm bolt happens before each movement interval or after

    then we can get a very good approximation on what happens and maybe figure out the chances of you getting stunned or not getting stunned.

    Because Charge of darkness updates every 0.02 seconds instead of every 0.005, it is possible for Huskar's magic immunity to be removed between the CoD detection intervals. I mean there are up to 4 frames before the storm bolt is even attempted which allows plenty of time for Huskar's magic immunity to be removed.

    Edit:
    The speed of the storm bolt doesn't really matter as you can't even attempt to cast it on a magic immune unit.
     
  6. Heraklinos

    Heraklinos Well-Known Member

    I just assumed that Huskar's magic immunity won't be removed before he reaches his target (as I have no idea about how Huskar's spells are coded, I could be terribly wrong). I can neither find the trigger description for Huskar's spells nor have access to WC3 at the moment so I can't include those 3 conditions you mentioned ( I think the first one could be roughly approximate but the other two I have completely no clue, hope someone with exact informations could clear things up)
     
  7. EebstertheGreat

    EebstertheGreat Forum Manager

    Huskar's magic immunity is removed when he is within 125 units of the target. Barathrum's stun is cast when he is within 100 units. So the stun should always happen.
     
  8. MauranKilom

    MauranKilom Well-Known Member

    ^It would always happen if it would be checked for continously.
     
  9. EebstertheGreat

    EebstertheGreat Forum Manager

    Yeah I guess at levels 3-4 it should be possible for the stun to sometimes not work. It depends on precise timing, lag, phase of Venus, etc.
     
  10. Yago

    Yago Well-Known Member

    Alright, I think it's QAC. That's what I thought.

    I've used it to pro dodge his stun once or twice and pick up a kill when I'm low HP at a tower and he Charge dives, but I'd also had it fail before, and I wondered if there was rhyme or reason to it.
     
  11. Clogon

    Clogon Well-Known Member

    Can you guys provide the info I requested? I would really like to calculate the chance at which Huskar can dodge CoD's stun.
     
  12. Yago

    Yago Well-Known Member

    Eebster already explained what it's affected by. The position of Venus etc. It's somewhat random and depends upon too many variables to reliably say for sure, at least, that's the way I interpreted that.
     
  13. EebstertheGreat

    EebstertheGreat Forum Manager

    1. Huskar is moved every 0.015 seconds by 15 units. Spiritbreaker is moved every 0.02 seconds by (350 + 75*lvl)*0.02 units.
    2. Magic immunity ends if distance < 125, charge ends if distance < 100.
    3. Both happen before movement (i.e., if dist < x, effects, otherwise move).
     
  14. Steric

    Steric Well-Known Member

    Assuming Eebster's numbers are right (which I don't doubt) and assuming there is no other movement it seems to me that it'd be impossible for Huskar to not get stunned.

    In order for Huskar to not get stunned, he would have to be less than 100 distance away from Spirit Breaker and have Charge run a check, without Lifebreak ending. However, between every 2 checks of Charge, at least one check of Lifebreak will happen (since it's on a shorter interval). So the least distance that a spell immune Huskar could be from Spirit Breaker when Charge checks the distance would be 110 (125-15) , which would be too high for charge to stun, and then Huskar would lose his magic immunity.

    However, if Huskar or Spirit Breaker get moved more than 10 units towards each other between the check of Lifebreak and Charge (a timing window of up to 0.01499... seconds), it would be POSSIBLE for the stun to fail. This can be achieved with a Force Staff, although whether or not the stun would actually be avoided would depend on the exact timing. Since Lifebreak has a shorter interval and a longer range, even with multiple Force Staves (since the faster the two approach the more likely it is that the stun will fail), it is still more likely that Huskar will lose his magic immunity before Charge tries to stun him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  15. Yago

    Yago Well-Known Member

    If it helps, when I dodged the stun one time I was almost melee range.
     
  16. Steric

    Steric Well-Known Member

    Ya, all that was assuming the skill was cast from over 125 distance away.

    Another possibility: With charge, there's always the chance that the SB miss-clicked and accidentally canceled the charge.
     
  17. GASHOLE

    GASHOLE Well-Known Member

    Just get a BKB! /trololol
     
  18. Yago

    Yago Well-Known Member

    Well, he raged into chat WTF WHY NO STUN. So I'm guessing nah. :p
     
  19. EebstertheGreat

    EebstertheGreat Forum Manager

    Yeah, for you to block a stun, you have to cast Life Break between 0.005 and 0.020 seconds after the check that moves Spiritbreaker to within 100 units of Huskar.

    Assuming again no engine quirkiness.
     
  20. Heraklinos

    Heraklinos Well-Known Member

    Is there any trigger description of Huskar available in PD yet?