Leavers in Dota 2

Discussion in 'DotA Chat' started by asdwtfasda, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. asdwtfasda

    asdwtfasda Well-Known Member

    So I made a post about Leavers in Dota 2.
    Here's the link: GosuGamers

    Anyone that plays dota knows the pain of having a leaver in the game especially if the leaver is in your team. Even if you win the game against the team of 4, you won't actually have the satisfaction of winning because of the unfair advantage your team had. Either way, leavers ruin the game for everyone.

    However, there are occasions that a player is unable to play, be it sudden lags, random disconnecting, or real life circumstances forcing a player to stop playing. These are legit reasons that I believe everyone can accept for a person to leave. Valve has already set up reconnection support for Dota 2, so unless the disconnection or lag problem persists for more than 10 minutes, a person should be able to get back into the game. In rare occasions, a person really has to go due to their cat being on fire or something, which in this situation, either the game is inevitably remade or played on 4v5. There is bot support though but I can't say anything about the bot's skill level since it hasn't been released yet.

    Yet, there are players that know they can only play for 15 minutes, and still they join the game, leaving 10 minutes later, wasting a total of 90 minutes(9 players x 10 mins) just so they get to play for 10 minutes. And there are also players that have lag issues that still join the game, they get first blooded, calls "BAD HOST!" and leaves. Fortunately, the games are now hosted on Valve's servers, so unless the servers get DDOS-ed, there should be no excuses for anyone now.

    So what can Dota 2 do to minimise problems caused by leavers?

    I believe Valve already has a system in mind, but I'm still going to voice my opinion. Existing dota platforms already have many viable systems that Dota 2 can take from. There is the tier ranking system which I think should be the skeleton of the ranked gaming system. E.g Tier1 -> Tier2 -> Tier3 -> Tier4 -> Tier5 -> Tier6.

    If you win a game, you gain points, you lose a game, you lose points and Tier1 = 100 points or less, Tier2 = 101-200 points etc. Many dota platforms such as iccup and dotacash already uses this system, and with the system being so popular, it definitely should be effective. So, in this tier ranking system, points are of importance here, leavers should get heavy penalties in terms of points so as to keep them at the lower tiers.

    Obviously its unfair for new players that get into Tier1 and the first experience of playing ranked gaming is with hordes of unmannered leavers. Therefore, there must be a Tier0 in which a player can only get into by leaving games. Let Tier0 be <0points. If you get into Tier1 with a starting of 50 points, and the penalty of leaving a game is 25 points, you get 3 chances for leaving before you fall into the oblivion of Tier0. Now, a player can choose to reset his stats, which I think should only be available once every 2 weeks. This is so that the leavers are forced to play against other leavers in Tier0 for AT LEAST 2 weeks. And I believe no one would want -25 points just so they get to play 10 minutes.

    The interface should include an option to display a player's stats. In the stats, it should show a player's leave count/percentage. In my experience of having a sub-par internet connection, a player's leave count percentage should not be above 7%, and thats accounting for ragequits(Sometimes, you just gotta RQ), worser internet than me and acceptable leaving, though a good-tempered person with normal internet should not have a leave count percentage of above 3%. And from the statistics, the other players can decide whether they wanna play with a person with dc rate of 50%.

    Off topic, the statistics should not show win/lose ratio or points, because there are people who like stacking teams against pubs. Win/lose ratio and points should be shown on a player's steam profile page.

    Other than ranked games, there should be normal games whereby leaves do count in their leave count percentage. The traditional "Add to Banlist" or "Report player" with a team of moderators should be more than sufficient here. Private games/Inhouses should not count leaves though, for obvious reasons.

    So what do you guys think could be improved from what I proposed? Or any suggestions that Valve could use to counter leavers?
  2. Dota2Panda

    Dota2Panda Well-Known Member

    A leaver threshold would be good.

    Players with more than 5 percent leaves can't join Matchmaking
  3. Mojoheart

    Mojoheart Well-Known Member

    Then who would buy this game then?

    Dota 2 is a public game. Its not some Dota-League.com or div-league where you get penalty points for leaving.

    Imagine starcraft 2. You leave a game get a lose. Thats how it should in dota 2. You leave a game you get a lose and thats it. No need to add some stupid rankings where everyone plays for points, kills, assist etc.

    People leave in every game! Battlefield, Uncharted 2, counter strike and many more. Not being able to join ranked game is a dumb suggestion. It would give the game bad ratings from reviewers and less people will be playing the game.

    Dota 2 is business and business = money!
    You have to sell the game and not turning the business into crap.
  4. diaz_

    diaz_ Well-Known Member

    5% ? u crazy ? u dont think about the people with bug connect / pc ... ?
  5. hideinlight

    hideinlight Well-Known Member

    5% is already almost too generous in my experience with HoN. They could however include two leaver thresholds, 5% and 10%. So that rage quitters with 8% don't have to play against retards and complete game ruin-ers with 50%
  6. asdwtfasda

    asdwtfasda Well-Known Member

    The point ranking system is only for ranked games. In normal unranked games, if you leave a game, a leave is added to your leave count, like in RGC. And the players in the same game can check on other player's leave count. They can then decide whether to play with the person or not.
    Some people wouldn't mind playing with 15% dc rate, some people do.
  7. hideinlight

    hideinlight Well-Known Member

    Uhm that's the whole point, I as a non leaver don't want to play with people with unreliable connections and crappy PC's.
  8. Rabscuttle

    Rabscuttle Well-Known Member

    Well, Leavers will be replaced with AI (soon) and the AI is pretty awesome. In fact, the AI is better than 90% of all pubby players so I wouldn't mind if a LoL player would leave my game.
  9. asdwtfasda

    asdwtfasda Well-Known Member

    5% is actually more than enough to cover for unexpected disconnections/accidental plug pull etc. If there were no leeway, a 0% should be implemented.
  10. diaz_

    diaz_ Well-Known Member

    yeah i agree but idk blocking the game for 5% leave its realy a hardcore way to solve this (dont forgeit people will put money on this).

    id prefer a point penality for the leavers.

    edit: stop editing msg's bro ._.'
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011
  11. Strike_Hunter

    Strike_Hunter Member

  12. asdwtfasda

    asdwtfasda Well-Known Member

    I actually wouldn't mind if an AI joins once every 10 games, but I would really hate it to play with something artificial every game, humans make mistakes, and that's how you get to land a hook, an arrow or a perfect black hole. And it would really suck if every arrow of yours missed due to 0sec reaction time of AI.
  13. hideinlight

    hideinlight Well-Known Member

    You don't have to block leavers, you just have to give people the ability to exclude them from their games. Unlike in HoN where matchmaking is made unavailable for people above 5% they could add an option for people with lower than 5% leaves to exclude leavers from matchmaking.
  14. mr.ioes

    mr.ioes Well-Known Member

    On DotAlicious it's 1% and it's working just fine. 5% would cause you to have a leaver every 2-3 games, think about it for a sec!

    Either you have a stable connection or you can gtfo and play practice matches/inhouse/whatever. But not matchmaking.
  15. ultqq

    ultqq Well-Known Member

    if every player left an average of one in 20 games, 50% of games would have at least one leaver. if for whatever reason you can't be depended on to stay, you should be confined to games with other gameruiners until you demonstrate adequate reliability. a tier system with a special place below the starting tier, for persistent leavers, would be great. in the higher-level, more serious games, leaving should be less tolerated anyway. leavers hurt dota more than most other games, even team games
  16. murlou

    murlou Member

    Yeah, wheter or not the reason, they still ruin the game for everyone else.

    IMO (obviously):

    The threshold should work fine (well... it worked well a year ago when I played HON), trying to make a complex system of tiers, points, levels, (...) won't necessarily make the system work better to punish leavers. Counting on moderators to take care of all the work is rather utopical. They're the ones to take care of bad mannered players which is way too much bandwidth already.

    Leaver protection is ideally simple, just make leavers play with leavers: 5%, 10%, this number can be tweaked. Wheter they decide for a free to play game or not, they should put perma stats (don't stop reading and flame me now, it doesn't need to be kill/death/assist) on the players page and use it in matchmaking and reward the non-leavers by letting them play with non-leavers.

    If they prefer receiving money from a bunch of leaving, hacking and/or bad mannered players because they pcs are crappy, they are kids, blablabla, I'd just go back and play in Garena without wasting HDD space, sadly ever after.
  17. Cymen

    Cymen Moderator

    Use the Dev forums. There is a reason they are closed to the public.
  18. DarkSuo

    DarkSuo Well-Known Member

    God, shut up.
  19. DeathMusician

    DeathMusician Well-Known Member

    I would like to add in something.

    Players with >10% disconnect rate, on the next launch of the client, will receive a huge pop-up with a picture of a penis and the words "suck it, leaver" as caption. The player is then IP-banned.
  20. Zenchi

    Zenchi Well-Known Member

    5% sounds pretty good to me. That's a LOT of matches if you play even a bit after all.
    Although i certainly hope it doesn't count leaves after you've had like 2-3 other people leave from your team.

    Other stats i could care less about (maybe win/lose ratio) but some kind of anti-leaver system would definetly be great.