Kelen's Slippers

Discussion in 'Item Ideas' started by tuffy, May 25, 2010.

  1. tuffy

    tuffy Well-Known Member

    Boots of Speed
    500 gold
    *50 movement speed


    Kelen's Dagger
    2150 gold
    *Blink (active)


    Kelen's Slippers
    2650 gold
    *70 movement speed
    *Blink (active)

    Additional Information:
    *Can be disassembled
    *Movement speed bonus does not stack with Boots of Travel, Phase Boots, Power Treads, Boots of Speed or Kelen's Slippers
    *Kelen's Slippers cannot be held by Butcher or Vengeful Spirit


    *Teleports the caster to a nearby location instantly
    *1200 range
    *Cannot be used if the carrier was damaged by an enemy player-controlled unit in the last 3 seconds
    *Self damage does not disable Blink, but damage from Roshan does
    *Costs 75 mana, has an 14 second cooldown

    *A rather logical, clean and simple upgrade of dagger.
    *Provides an alternative to Boots of Travel as higher tier (luxury) boots.
    *Encourages even more heroes to get dagger.

    Thank you for reading.
    Last edited: May 28, 2010
  2. cepheids

    cepheids Well-Known Member


    Kelen's dagger is already EXTREMELY POWERFUL. We do not want to free up one slot for heroes that already abuse its awesomeness.

    If you insist on having this item, throw in a 1000 gold recipe or reduce the movement speed to +50 with a 500 gold recipe.
  3. Wurmple

    Wurmple Well-Known Member

    ^YEAH and the BoT gives you the TP ability and (50)+45 ms, IMBA, remove BoT!

    /sarcasm off

    I like it, T-up
  4. tuffy

    tuffy Well-Known Member

    my thoughts exactly. dagger costs 2150 gold and the BoT recipe costs 2200 gold so both recipes (BoT and Kelen's slippers) have exactly the same cost. they also provide similar map control and mobility mechanisms: one is with short cd and range, the other is with high cd and range.

    furthermore, BoT also frees up a slot that would otherwise be taken by scrolls of teleportation and still has been in the game for a long time and even got buffed recently (to give even more ms).

    i do think that blink gives slightly more utility than teleport, though, and that is why my suggestion gives 25 less movement speed than BoT (95>70). still, for an item that costs the same as bot it would be unfair to give only 50 ms bonus compared to 95.

    i did put time and efford into this suggestion and (as you can see) have examined the possible issues i could think of and have reached the conlusion that (at least imo) my suggestion wouldn't be that grossly overpowered.

    really, i know that blink is an insanely good skill already, but so is teleportation... that is evidenced by the fact that maybe 20-30% (up to 50% these days) of players get dagger but nearly 100% stock up on tp scrolls. i've watched some competitive replays recently so i know this conclusion is fairly accurate. thus, the relative worth of blink and teleportation can be considered to be roughly the same (of roughly the same utility to players).

    hense, players get to choose between two sets of boots that cost the same amount of gold and provide two different types of mobility of roughly the same worth (teleport/blink). imo each could be preferred over the other depending on the personal preferences of the players and the needs of the game (and the specifics of the hero, ofc).

    anyway, i would appreciate more constructive feedback.
  5. cepheids

    cepheids Well-Known Member

    Kelen's Dagger provides MUCH MUCH MORE combat effectiveness than BoT. The two abilities are also very much different.

    Teleport scrolls can be bought at 135 because the ability is not overpowered. Do you see Blink potions being sold at 135? What would happen if Blink potions exist?

    Heros such as Sand King and EarthShaker will no longer need to endure the long duration of farming for a Kelen's dagger in order to abuse its power!

    Definitely T-down. The fact that there are no Blink potions mean that the Blink ability is far superior to the teleportation ability. If it is far superior, either make it far more expensive, or just don't change anything.
  6. tuffy

    tuffy Well-Known Member

    that is your opinion, so fair enough.
    note, however, that i'm not suggesting a reduction of the cost of dagger or the introduction of cheap blink consumables! to get the ability to blink people would still have to farm at least 2150 gold just as before!

    just consider the amount of tp scrolls a player buys throughout a game. in many games it can reach 20 per hero which is equivalent to the cost of a dagger. furthermore, the fact that tp scrolls (as consumables) exist is just a testament to how important and useful teleportation is through every stage of the game. not to mention that in order to get BoT (the actual item that gives the teleport ability similar to dagger that gives the blink ability) players must 'endure the same long duration of farming' as its recipe costs exactly as much as dagger does (or even more if we throw in the 500 gold for the boot component of the BoT recipe).

    i guess you can argue that i can't really compare teleport to blink, and that is a fair argument as they are different skills. they do, however, fulfil a similar purpose: provide mobility. they just achieve that in two different ways, both of which are equally useful imo. that is why i don't see the problem of having both abilities on boots that also cost the same amount of gold.

    it would be a tradeoff between BoT and a dagger (2 slots) or kelen's slippers and tp scrolls (2 slots again).

    then again, even now dagger is not exactly easy to farm (especially on those heroes that could make the most use of it). so i can't really imagine shaker, tide and sand king roaming around the map with blink boots at the 10 minute mark... :)

    i don't know, once again i can understand your argument, but i also think that my counter argument has some worth. all this recipe does is give 20 ms and a free slot.

    now, the free slot is a big thing granted, but most of the time heroes (especially those who benefit most from dagger being roaming gankers or support) don't get enough farm to fill all their item slots anyway. furthermore, 2650 gold for boots (even with blink) is not a price to laugh at. finally, everyone who chooses to get blink boots would have to sacrifice the global mobility (and higher ms) of BoT or the invaluable strength boost from (the cheaper) threads early game. so as you can see, this wouldn't really be the best boot type in all situations for all heroes.

    it would merely be another option of late game luxury footware to choose from to act as competition for BoT, depending on the players' playstyle and the needs of the game.
    Last edited: May 26, 2010
  7. JD_

    JD_ Well-Known Member

    I suggest a small recipe cost
    Cause when I play initiators I always see myself having one Boots and one Kelens in my inventory. I also suggest you find a good icon in
  8. dreamcatcher0

    dreamcatcher0 Well-Known Member

    hey! those icons are my ashera's sandals icon (except the one in the middle)

  9. tuffy

    tuffy Well-Known Member

    *Can be disassembled (if possible like perserverance - on click)

    i really don't think that these boots should cost more than BoT... maybe you can convince me otherwise :)

    about the icons... don't really matter. i've searched hive and couldn't find any suitable icons so i was left with the wow icon database.

    ... and i havent even seen your suggestion, i just found these three to be the most fitting out of the wow list (and funny enough, i tend to like the middle one the most).
  10. cepheids

    cepheids Well-Known Member

    You have reiterated my stands, but you still insist they are "equally useful". I shall write less this time, so it is clearer...

    1. BoT provides general mobility, Dagger provides combat mobility. Combat mobility is of much greater value.
    2. The absence of Blink Potions is testament to the greater value of the Dagger.
    3. Slot space is a cost. Lack of slot space is value. What you propose is +50 MS (500) + Blink (2150) -> +70 MS + Blink - 1 slot (2650). Do you see why you need to put in an expensive recipe?
    4. You cannot use the Travel Recipe for unlimited teleporting without the boot, but you can with the Dagger.

    What I am saying is, your idea is good (T-up for concept), but the cost is WAYYYYYY too low.
  11. tuffy

    tuffy Well-Known Member

    1. that is your assessment, i'm not entirely convinced one is better than the other.
    2. not necessarily.
    3. consider other recipes without scrolls (perseverance, battlefury, butterfly, RoB, hood oD, helm oD, etc.).
    4. that means that to get the item for unlimited teleporting you must spend even more gold than to obtain the item for unlimited blinking.

    to stop this argument, i can understand your concern and can see the reasoning behind your points. however, i would like to see what other people have to say about it as well since i respectfully disagree with you on most points. so, i'll keep in mind your concern, but will wait for some more feedback (that may or may not convince me that a recipe is needed).
  12. -IDenkaiI-

    -IDenkaiI- Well-Known Member

    I think that you took the idea from Hero Siege's Boots of Speed, anyway, the concept sounds good, but a bit so-so. T-null.

    OMG! Those boots seem from a Drag queen, srsly ¬¬!
  13. Krauzi

    Krauzi Member

    sry T-Down because in my opinion dagger is a very very combat deciding item. In combination with boots it will save you one slot. I think this is a bit unbalanced.
  14. STR1D3R

    STR1D3R Well-Known Member

    Deffinately T-up, dagger buying heroes often neglect the upgrading of boots and are therefore slower than needed, this would be an awesome item imo
  15. Tiche3

    Tiche3 Well-Known Member

    also buyers of dagger often makes phase boots so this will make them rethink what to make since phase boots provides much more ms than thease boots.

    but i would also like to agree on puting a rcp cost for that +20ms on the boot :)

  16. Wrooks

    Wrooks Well-Known Member

    For this reason there should be a recipe cost of 1100 atleast, Make them think about if they want to buy phase or to upgrade to kelen's slippers by the way those are not slippers they look more like sabatons or give less ms than phase since they have to pay an additional 900 for blinkdagger and phase boots (Two slots).
  17. invul_nerable

    invul_nerable Well-Known Member

    i have an idea.... why would you not suggest an item called blink potion

    so it would be fair....
  18. dreamcatcher0

    dreamcatcher0 Well-Known Member

    i agree to this... yes! i know that boots of speed that teleports.. haha!
  19. davicim0

    davicim0 Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure how I feel about having a blink dagger and boots taking up only one item slot. Actually, I'm not sure how I feel about making the blink dagger a component item for a larger recipe
  20. genehmster

    genehmster Well-Known Member

    100% t-d in its current form. You can buy blink and automatically get a bonus +20ms. Then you can leave this boots until you get your BoT, because you get it anyways. Imo thats just a +20ms buff to dagger....