Is true immortality achievable?

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Tidus_, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. aestropher

    aestropher Well-Known Member

    I don't think so; you will just have another being that has the same mind as you at the time of the transfer.

    Your world still dies when you die. To others, you could be lived by your substitute, but your own perspective about everything is no more.
     
  2. Glac1al

    Glac1al Well-Known Member

    Pretty much what aestropher said, except you're vulnerable to EMP and other stuff.
     
  3. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Well-Known Member

    What is the difference between you and a 100% identical replicate?

    I'd still count it as immortality if science could reach that level.
     
  4. aestropher

    aestropher Well-Known Member

    The difference is that you as an individual still die. You don't get to experience the living of your replicate. To other people, it may as well be your immortality; but other people don't matter to a dead person.
     
  5. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Well-Known Member

    Why my individual is still die? My consciousness resides in the digital world or just in the replicated body.

    Unless you could really prove that "soul" existed independently from consciousness and when the original body died, the "soul" ceased to exist as well.
     
  6. aestropher

    aestropher Well-Known Member

    When you create your own replicate, you have 2 separate individuals; and it's quite clear the perishing of either individual doesn't have an effect on the other.

    Moreover you and your replicate's minds will start to vary right at the moment your replicate is created, due to different perspectives.
     
  7. NecroGiant

    NecroGiant Well-Known Member

    Immortality can be achieved, but i hope it won't.
    Seriously, if everyone would live at least 200 years, that means the population will go up to more than fifteen million soon. And i think that would lead to a a catastrophe.
     
  8. aestropher

    aestropher Well-Known Member

    First of all, not everyone "suddenly acquires" immortality.
    Second of all, we can limit reproduction if it's getting crowdier, or even set up extraterrestrial colonies.

    Calling death a need is simply being evil.
     
  9. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Well-Known Member

    Pretty much so, but I have never said that the original will live along side with the replicate. The replicate acts as a replacement; it will function when the original ceases to function. Basically, we recreate the same environment to transfer the mind/consciousness and use the replicate as a vessel for our mind/consciousness.

    It will go up fast at the first few decades but then it will stall; people will realize that there will be more mouths to feed and the wealth needs to divided amongst the offspring. More and more will die due to diseases, poverty and conflicts, also.
     
  10. aestropher

    aestropher Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't call it a replicate if your conscience is transferred to the new body (i.e. you continue your very own living experience in the new body) instead of duplicated.

    It would be the real immortality if the process can be repeated without harm.
     
  11. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't it the same thing if you transfer your consciousness into machine?
     
  12. aestropher

    aestropher Well-Known Member

    As long as my living experience is continued in the machine, yes. Otherwise no.

    It's literally a world of difference between a transferred conscience and a duplicated one, you continue to live in the former case, but not the latter.
     
  13. Glac1al

    Glac1al Well-Known Member

    Even then you're doomed to die when there's nobody to support your existence. Computers don't last forever. There's too many variables to consider when it comes to achieving immortality.
     
  14. NecroGiant

    NecroGiant Well-Known Member

    Then i am an evil person. Sorry.

    About extraterrestrial colonies: i think that, by the time we find out how to travel 1 parsec within a few hours (and we manage to find a planet where we could find anything we need to survive), immortality will already have been a pity.

    And what if the life of people follows the natural cycle?

    ---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

    About transferring your brain into a new body: i think that is worthless. Your brain still degrades and it gets older no matter what. Unless scientists find something to stop or decrease the speed of brain degradation, i would call it pointless.
    Few yrs later, your whole memory could be lost.
     
  15. aestropher

    aestropher Well-Known Member

    You are not evil for not choosing to live forever, you are evil for denying other people's right to.

    Since you so despise anti-aging efforts, I hope you hold true to your words and "free up some space" by dying of old age in a world where immortality is available.

    ---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:37 PM ----------

    More on the pro-aging trance:

    Not to mention the saving of brilliant, dignified and restless minds, and every single person in the world you ever care about. To actively oppose it is anti-human and should be charged with such crime.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  16. NecroGiant

    NecroGiant Well-Known Member

    I have no problem with your decision to live forever, i just find the idea stupid. Maybe geniuses could be worth conservating, but not every idiot. And if there was something that gives immortality, i would still choose natural death. You know, even an immortality potion, pill or whatever will have it's secondary effects. Maybe you would be immortal but by the time you would get 200 years old (and there is no such thing like body swap or something like that), you would be so old that even getting up would be a problem and you would blame yourself for your decision to become immortal and would like to die, but you would realise you can't so you would have to choose a brutal way to kill yourself.
     
  17. aestropher

    aestropher Well-Known Member

    We aren't even there yet, so what's with all the assumptions about it being painful.

    Dying is always an option to every being, but it's an option they can't go back. AFAIK reviving people from death should be even harder than life extension/anti-aging. I suggest if a mean to immortality does exist and you don't like it, at least try it and see it for yourself.

    Even if it has pitfalls, at least you can live to see the day those pitfalls are resolved and live the real "happily ever after".
     
  18. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Well-Known Member

    If immortality could be achieved then space travel would not be a problem to say the least. Human can take hundreds years to travel to an extraterrestrial colony. If they are bored to wait, probably cryonics could work, assuming cryonics technology can be perfected before achieving immortality.

    And here I believe immortality also means there is no aging, and rejuvenation should be available.
     
  19. NecroGiant

    NecroGiant Well-Known Member

    If you travel in space with the speed of the light, you age very slowly.
    .... It takes you to travel to another planet 100 years, but you only age ~5-10 years.

    Also, as every venom (almost) has its antivenom, this potion or whatever should have anti-immortality potion. If you get bored of immortality, just drink it and the next day you will live no longer.
     
  20. HHHNNNGGG

    HHHNNNGGG Well-Known Member

    I believe that immortality come before attaining the speed of light (one is theoretically possible and one is currently theoretically impossible). At this moment the fastest vehicle is the Helios II, and it only has even less than 1/3600 speed of light. It can barely make a difference in aging IMO.
    Hibernating via cryonics could help them pass time during flight anyway.