How to play unreliable heroes?

Discussion in 'Game Strategy' started by Overpowerade, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. Overpowerade

    Overpowerade Well-Known Member

    I have no idea how to play heroes that requires kills to succeed (Ember Spirit, Queen of Pain, Storm Spirit, etc).

    The only thing I know how to do is farm for 20 minutes on Terrorblade and take all their towers.
     
  2. JDF8

    JDF8 Well-Known Member

    ember spirit is not kill-reliant, he merely needs to accrue gold and not die. his skillset allows him to easily kill people who are out of position in the early game and win fights, but if he is forced into passively farming he will perform fine in most games

    however qop and ember are both kind of bad this patch
     
  3. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    There is no hero who relies on kills to success. Advantages in Dota only have 2 forms: xp and golds.
     
  4. Overpowerade

    Overpowerade Well-Known Member

    But how will, say, Nyx, get those things?
     
  5. AvrilLabigne

    AvrilLabigne Well-Known Member

    Solo lane into you have Battlefury, then stay hidden on jungle into anyone appears to die.
     
  6. jokinen

    jokinen Well-Known Member

    If you don't find kills but also don't die when playing nyx it should mean your team has map control advantage because of your scouting, threatening kills and them playing safely. You can use that to accumulate gold and xp more than the opponents and find objectives easier (towers and roshan). In that situation nyx isn't really getting the gold and xp but his team is.
     
  7. AvrilLabigne

    AvrilLabigne Well-Known Member

    Sure a new player will understand what you said. Be clear for God's sake.

    OP, what he meant is that by being hidden and having killing potential you're forcing your enemy to play in at least group of two. Which will decrease the area coverage of the enemy team and force them to split gold and exp by two, potentially decreasing their leveling rate by 45%.

    With less area coverage, your team is able to safely upgrade. It also creates a difficulty on enemy in defending Towers because they won't be able to defend three of them walking in group, and if low defended your team can also overhelm the enemy defense. Which is where you must take your part.

    Btw, this is the basic concept of raiding, or what we call on our modern days as terrorism.
     
  8. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    You hit creeps until they die.
     
  9. DasKobold

    DasKobold Well-Known Member

    Qop does not rely on kills that much, also how do you manage to not get kills as QoP? Are you one of those idiots that max blink first? All you do is spam dagger at your enemy and at some point you can just blink in and E them to death. Like all you need is boots and level 6 and you can go around the map and basically kill everyone you want.
     
  10. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Well-Known Member

    Which spirit?

    Storm is fine afk farming because he gets better the more items he has. He can do pickoffs on supports and escape ganks. QoP was never good for as long I have played.
     
  11. DasKobold

    DasKobold Well-Known Member

    QoP is like one of my auto win heroes, how is she not good? Well she is kinda shit if the entire enemy team has str heroes but that doesn't happen to often in my experience. If the enemy has a pa or some shit like that she is a free kill every time your ulti is off cooldown.
     
  12. JDF8

    JDF8 Well-Known Member

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  13. Overpowerade

    Overpowerade Well-Known Member

    So, as a Nyx, I just AFK and act as a ward?
     
  14. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Well-Known Member

    Nyx only needs blink to be good. You want to stun the enemies and mana burn high int heroes, plus clutch carapaces. It's tempting for people to go dagons, but that's the least reliable build because you will be countered with sentries and just feed. Blink allows you to get into position to stun several heroes.
     
  15. FightFightFight

    FightFightFight Well-Known Member

    I don't think Nyx should be playing safely, it's such a waste of a hero. The only reason to pick this hero is rambo-ganking every Vendette cooldown and blinking into a middle of 5 enemies with Spiked Carapace on.

    But Ember and QoP are another story. They have good farm speed and can actually do something with that gold. As long as they stay in solo lane and get some farm, they aren't going to autolose if enemy plays safely. In fact, QoP gets AoE midas with 4200 gold and Ember with BoT+Bfury can wipe out creepwaves at any point of a map without regen problems. In fact you can farm Aghs+BoT+Necrobook+Deso on QoP and right-click down towers with same efficientcy as Terrorblade, if not better. These heroes are not unreliable at all.
     
  16. GoD_Tyr

    GoD_Tyr Well-Known Member

    Nyx is all about gangs from level 6. Hes not farm type of hero and never was. You need to be active and participate in team fights for him to be notable.
     
  17. jokinen

    jokinen Well-Known Member

    If you find kills you find kills that earns you and your team gold and xp while taking it away from opponents and gaining map control. With better map control you have better chances to ward well, farm in larger area, easier to gain objectives (towers and rosh) and just generally have better knowledge.

    If you don't find kills it means you failed gank/team fight or have forced opponents to play it safe. If they play it safe it can still be a good win for your team.

    When opponents are afraid of nyx ganks they are afraid to move on the map and afraid to go alone. This is the situation when they don't have vision of nyx. So once again your team gains map control which means more are for your team to cover, better warding opportunities, easier to gain objectives and just generally better knowledge. With larger area to cover and good vision through wards and nyx scouting your team can farm larger area of the map and can safely split up to farm and pressure lanes. When you force opponents to group up in 2-5 member units they share available gold and xp or some of them don't get any of it. You on the other hand can split farm or go for objectives. Superior vision allows for better decision making. Imagine a scenario where your team has control of 2/3 of the map, aggressive wards, nyx scouting and split farm to farm/push the lanes and jungle. With your aggressive vision you can spot enemies and make decision to split push, gank, team fight or go for objectives much more better compared to your opponents who are limited in knowledge through vision as their lanes are pushed in, they don't have aggressive wards and don't have an invis hero scouting. They have very limited knowledge of what your team is doing and are afraid of ganks if they move out of their safe zone. They don't necessarily know if you are split farming lanes and jungle, smoking as a team or roshing to they have harder time to make decisions than your team has. If they disappear from the map when the lanes are pushed it usually means they smoked. Pressuring multiple towers while you have this sort of map advantage means you could just split farm, get free tower(s), get free roshan or overwhelm them if they defend a tower with too low force.

    Being off the map (meaning enemies don't have vision of you) is the best thing you can do as Nyx. You scout and look for kill opportunities. If they don't see you they are afraid and thus limited in actions or risk of dying.

    The problem in lower mmr games is that people are less likely to take advantage of kills or gain said possible map advantage if you force opponents to play very safely. This is because of lack of good decision making, warding, farming patterns, team work and more tendency to overextend while split pushing or looking for kills. That being said it is also easier to find kills in lower mmr games and people are better to take advantage of kills than pressure.
     
  18. Lama051

    Lama051 Moderator

    Honestly I would say you only need arcane boots and you are good to go, allows you to gank almost non stop with your high HP regen. Blink is superb extension
     
  19. AvrilLabigne

    AvrilLabigne Well-Known Member

    Gank, go back to jungle, farm into Vendetta is off cooldown, gank, go back to jungle, farm into Vendetta is off cooldown, gank, go back to jungle..

    I'd recommend to build Battlefury even before boot.