Global Warming Debate

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Corki, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. gigadrweelbreak

    gigadrweelbreak Well-Known Member

    that is why people are now thinking about only growing chickens for meat, as they don't cause much pollution

    Cows aren't only a contributer but it is the ONE OF THE BIGGEST contributers
  2. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    I think the problem is more of cutting down trees than co2. some people are underestimating industries and mass production. when an industry relies on cutting many trees, then climate change will definitely happen.

    In electronics, a power supply (PSU) converts AC to DC power. In the conversion process, some of those power is lost in the form of heat. I'm glad that companies like Corsair is pushing for efficient PSUs. they help reduce global warming.
  3. r0xo

    r0xo Well-Known Member

    It is quite bad when you hear how much energy is lost trough unintended means (heat etc). If I remember it correctly I once heard that car engines only end up supplying around 30% of the power they produce since so much is lost through kinetic energy (the engine shaking) and heat.

    That is a very interesting part of the global warming issue and science in general. How it leads to us as a species constantly improving our designs. In this case realising that it is possible as well as important for us to maximize efficiency.
  4. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    ^ I know perfectly that feeling bro.

    support 80 Plus org. their move is to promote power efficiency devices (in this case, PSU). a generic China PSU that costs around 5-10$ is only actually 60% efficient. meaning 40% power is lost in the form of heat.

    which in then translates to higher electric bill and hotter computer operations. that directly affects people like me, a cybercafe owner.
  5. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    Except that the energy lost to heat is saved by the reduced amount of energy required for intended heating.
  6. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    and what component in a PC would need "intended heating"?

    last time I checked, people buy fans and cooling systems in their PC, not heaters.
  7. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    Your PC usually is within a building, fans and cooling system transport heat outside of the PC and don't magically make your pc colder.

    Guess why you have to spend extra energy for heating in electric cars.
  8. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    there's a world of difference between excess heat and proper heating
  9. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't it be better then to stop heating our houses instead of blaming excess heat for climate change.
  10. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    must be nice living in a cold weather.

    try again when you live in the desert.
  11. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    As you said there is a huge difference between excess heat and intended heating, so why mention AC/DC converters and such things if they have no measureable impact?

    Have you ever thought about how much heat a nuclear power plant produces? Even IF excess heat plays a measureable role in climate change, some puny AC/DC converters are completly negligible.
  12. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    there are probably around 100 million computers used everyday in the whole world.

    those 60% (generic PSU) and 80% (true rated, 80 plus certified) difference in power efficiency mean a lot.
  13. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    And where does the electricty come from?

    According to a quick google search nuclear power plants have 30-40% efficiency same for coal-fired power plants.

    So from the initial amount of energy X, you are losing 60%+ leaving you with 40% of X, and from those 40% you lose 20-40%. 0.4*0.4=0.16.

    You care more about the 8-16% lost in your PC than the 60% lost before.

    Even if you PC had less than 1% efficiency the loss would be far less than what you lose when producing the energy.

    Windmills have up to 60% efficiency and water power plants even up to 90%.

    And being more efficient when producing the energy indirectly affects every consumer, while having some high class AC/DC-converters only affect a part of the consumers.

    When talking about the amount of computers you should specify what you see as a computer. Because each year there are over 100m (maybe even more than 200m) CPUs sold as part of cars.
  14. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    see red.

    For our example, a computer with generic PSU (60% efficient) and is consuming 100W would be eating up 166W from the wall. for the 80 Plus PSU, it would be 125W. both 66W and 25W are wasted energy in the form of heat.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
  15. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    Does this in any way disprove what i wrote?

    Using the same law you allready lost over 150-230W in the power plant as heat.


    Proper calculation:

    Values from my post from before:
    Excess heat from the power plant: 60%
    Excess heat from the PSU: 16%
    Effective power used by the PSU: 24%

    Assuming a 100W PSU:

    Total power: 100W/0.24=416W
    Excess heat from the PSU: 416W*0.16=66W
    Excess heat from the power plant: 416W*0.6=250W

    Now take a guess, what is more significant: 66W or 250W?
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
  16. kildat017

    kildat017 Well-Known Member

    so its a question of who's the bigger contributor, 1 million power plants or 100 million PSUs?

    point still stands though. As you're just a common average John, you can't do anything on something as big as a power plant. but on a PSU? yes.
  17. Mognakor

    Mognakor Well-Known Member

    How much PSUs are there that work without a power plant?