Drow feels really good right now

Discussion in 'Game Strategy' started by StrychIX, Jul 9, 2016.

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  1. yui92

    yui92 Well-Known Member

    Drow fanboys saying Drow better tha medusa? More like, illiterate.

    To know what makes Marksmanship a stupid ult, just read what is already written in the skill description.

    For extra info http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Dota_2_Wiki

    Oh wait maybe it's hard for those people to read from the website. They can't even bother to read the simple ult description.

    So is this considered as spam? Just asking. Since i won't bother typing a full essay explaining things i already mentioned many times.

    ---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

    This is the problem when people take tournaments pick and bans as canon and bible for hero balance. Causing the rates be more important deciding factor than the hero design itself.

    And you're tight. It's not about MM. It's the hero. But the hero becomes shit because of the MM remake. So what does it tell you?
     
  2. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Well-Known Member

    Drow is a bad hero, unless you are playing against potatoes. I think she should be played as pos 4 or 5 with another ranged carry and preferably ranged mid and other support. She can provide ambient damage and damage for pushing. She can silence and slow. If things go right, she can become the second carry-ish.

    But unless you are playing against idiots, people will just always focus and kill her right away. She has terrible turn rate and front swing (or whatever). No hp, no defense mechanism, and no escape.
     
  3. AvrilLabigne

    AvrilLabigne Well-Known Member

    138DPs at level 6, in 6 sec she deal more damage than a level 8 Tinker.
     
  4. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    People playing at TI are all idiots then.
     
  5. BornFromAGrave

    BornFromAGrave Well-Known Member

    I agree that its not realy good to play Drow in a team with 4 melees. 2-3 other ranged helps a ot. But her Turnrate is above the avarage (only 9 heroes turn faster then her) and gust + 1 frostarrow helps a lot to get away. The attackpoint is just annoying until you are 6.
     
  6. fevgatos

    fevgatos Well-Known Member

    Ofc Drow is better than Medusa. 150%. But that's irrelevant to the topic.

    Also, just because her passive gets removed when people are near doesn't automatically mean it's bad. In order to call an ability bad you have to compare it's cons with its pros. You didn't.

    For example, there may be an ability that when you press it, it automatically kills every hero around you in 1000 AOE, but it gets disabled when someone is in 425 range around you. Does that make it a bad ability? NOPE. Therefore, a simple reductio ad absurdum argument is enough to prove your entire case wrong. Just because an ability gets disabled doesnt make it a bad ability.
     
  7. TK.darkro90

    TK.darkro90 Well-Known Member

    Pick elder titan and see if drow's still feeling good.
     
  8. fevgatos

    fevgatos Well-Known Member

    Oh, rest assured I did. You kept repeating that it's a bad hero design ad infinitum. The question is, is her ulti along with the rest of her skillset (mainly meaning her aura) enough to overcome that it gets disabled? And the answer is obviously yes. Just won a game getting racks at 20 minutes due to Drow. She is just broken beyond belief. Gl getting next to her at 10-15 minutes with your Ptreads w/e hero while her whole team is hitting you for 150 damage each.

    Because that's the fact you don't take into account. She is NOT a lategame hero. She peaks at 20-25 minutes, at level 16, while she and her whole team have an absurd amount of right click while in the meanwhile, you have 1 tops 2 items. How exactly are you gonna defend your towers at minute 15 with your average Sven / Slark / Magina / Alche?

    The only thing that can stop her at that point in time is probably a blademail dagger axe, and that's if she doesn't have a defensive support like Oracle or Dazzle.

    Yes, I'm sure it is, and the reasons you used to support that are astounding.

    Sorry, no, my analogy is PERFECTLY fine, unless of course you can prove otherwise, and just asserting it is not proof.

    ---------- Post added at 06:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 AM ----------

    That's like saying pick Axe with blademail or PL and see if Slark is good. It's nonsense. Just because X hero is a counter doesn't make Y hero bad. If ET is a counter to Drow then guess what, don't pick her against him.
     
  9. AvrilLabigne

    AvrilLabigne Well-Known Member

    We're still here. When will yui realize that the fault of Markmanship being countered is his lack of ability on keeping enemies where he want.
     
  10. FightFightFight

    FightFightFight Well-Known Member

    she needs Dragon Lance+Manta to be remotely useful outside of providing damage to allies

    this game is not about soloing each other...

    buy the god damn TP scroll, or have Meepo/Xin with travels. ranged creeps have garbage armor even 60 minites of game, so they cleared easily even by auto-attacks of support

    no, not picking bad on purpese. they are just too pussy to try new strats ouside of small pool they are familiar with. especialy strats that involve some risk. for example, Meepo+Lycan can be way more scary for pushing then Drow+rangeds, but they choose 2nd because it's riskless

    ---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

    haha, that's so true. but many people seem to not realize that 400 area is very serious weakness. even Enchantress' Empetus deals respectable damage at this distance

    special weaknesses/counters are justified to balance out special strengths. thats how good design works. for example, Blur is
    countered by MKB, but if you have no MKB, PA is near-unkillable with physical damage. Marksmanship is nothing special, just some single-target DPS boost, and only compensates for her crippled natural agility. Clinkz or WR's skills also give tons of single target damage from good range, but they are not countered by doing nothing; and these heroes have normal stat gains (even high!).

    but guess what they don't have: damage aura to prevent garbage SF/Invo players from sucking at lane, even if Drow does nothing and just sticks around for XP. is that what you guys love in heroes, low-risk-low-reward???

    that are the main points complain on Drow's design

    no, she already fades away to that point. due to weird scaling of Marksmanship, it only rocks at level 6 and then slowly becomes irrelevant
    ---
    edit: added more stuff
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  11. fevgatos

    fevgatos Well-Known Member

    Using the same nonsensical arguemnt ,we have an unloved guy who wants him to post the dotabuff for him ;)

    No, I don't want you to do the math, cause I already did them. I'm trying to expose your dishonesty here, but you seem pretty good at avoiding to answer the questions that would expose you. Drow deals a stupendous amount of damage compared to Medusa, so you were wrong. And since you are wrong about that, you are probably wrong about Drow being a bad hero.

    Now about the dotabuff, though I don't play much Drow and I never quite liked the hero, I can start playing it and post my dotabuff in 2-3 days. But even if I have a crazy win ratio, what do I get? You'll just start evading exactly like you are doing now regarding Medusa vs Drow's dps, so it's absolutely pointless. You are absolutely wrong about everything, you are just not admitting it, you are just dodging instead ;)

    ---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

    Even if that was the case (it isn't, but for the sake of argument), providing a stupid amount of damage to her allies, that's very useful indeed. It guarantees you win your lane with a crazy amount of cs / denies.

    Thankfully, that's not the case either. At 10-15 minutes that you start pushing like crazy, you don't need either dragonlance nor Manta.

    Exactly. And that's why Drow absolutely recks face.



    That same nonsense all over again. You act are a low mmr pubber. The game DOES not start at 50 minutes. It starts at minute 0. Meepo and Lycan in the same team are gonna autolose every single lane possible. While on the other hand, Drow's team is gonna autowin every single lane due to her +dmg. It would be really funny watching you going up against a Drow team with a meepo + lycan!! Haha, I would pay to see that kind of shit. GG racks at 10?



    Again, that low mmr pubber mentality is taking over. You don't judge each skill separately, you have to judge the whole package. Markmanship is a HUGE boost to her allies as well, due to her aura. Neither Clinckz nor WR have that. Also, it has no freaking downtime and it costs 0 mana, unlike both Clinckz and WR's skills. Wr can only hit 1 hero with her damage boost every 60 seconds. That's 1 hero per teamfight!! Great comparison there, listing only the pros and not the cons.

    Also, I betta a paycheck, Drow deals more damage than WR even when her ulti is up! That's not counting hte fact that Drow's aura gives damage to EVERYONE.

    And about the stats, go ahead, compare Clinckz and Drow's stats at level 6 and 11. Yeap, great stat gain my ass. Drow has 40 more stats as soon as level 6!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2016
  12. FightFightFight

    FightFightFight Well-Known Member

    Meepo and Lycan does not need 50 mins to come online

    maybe they can have proper supports to cover their early game weakness?

    and Clinkz/WR has nothing but damage? insane map mobility and free midas is irrelevant? the ability to stun two heroes in teamfight is irrelevant?

    they can get mana with eficient items which also provide useful active abilities. downtime is less important if you can pack enough reliable DPS in short duration of a disable. and WR can reduce her downtime with scepter.

    talking shit like this does not really make good argument. good luck owning with your pro skillz Drow strats
     
  13. fevgatos

    fevgatos Well-Known Member

    They sure as hell need more than 0 though

    And when 2 heroes that have early weaknesses with supports to cover those weakness go against a hero that doesn't have early weaknesses so their supports are there to make them even better, who do you think is going to take the early game / mid game?

    A lycan + whatever supports you want to cover your weaknesses vs a Drow with an oracle / sd / wd / dazzle, they are going to reck you to kingdom come.


    Oh, Clinkz / Wr have more skills but Drow doesn't? And there I though she's got an Aoe silence + knockback, a 60% permaslow and a global damage aura. Silly me...

    You were talking about their damage, so what's where I focused. Markmanship has the special ability of boosting your allies damage even further due to her aura.


    So, the fact that Drow can 24/7 deal a truckload of more damage than WR can without any items, no downtime and no manacost is not a pro all of a sudden? Not only that, but she can also share that damage with her allies. But NOPE, buying mana items to sustain yourself in order to deal single target dps every 60seconds is the shit nowadays.


    Blabla. Did you count drow's stats vs clinckz yet? Come back after you do
     
  14. yui92

    yui92 Well-Known Member

    First of all, nobody asked anyone's dotabuff but this Avrilabigne guy said that he wanna show how he can have ez wins with Drow so that's why i keep on asking. HE HIMSELF OFFERED IT. What's so hard to understand?

    Oh and if you want to post yours, go on. But will i care about your winrate? Of course NOT. I made myself clear that those rates means nothing when discussing hero's design itself.

    But IF you insist, bring it on.

    Secondly, if you're too deficient to recognize Medusa's damage output, just go to dota hero calculator and assuming the heroes are naked without items, just maxed out skills :

    Drow has 91 AGI (171 WITH ULT), 1840 HP, 109-120 damage (189-200 with ult) and some more from aura.

    Medusa has 100 AGI, 1660 HP, 124-130 damage.

    WOWWW Drow has 170 AGI MUST BE IMBA. Yeah back when her ult is permanent and her stupid 1.9 AGI gain for an AGI hero is justified.

    The math roughly for the deficient :

    80% of Medusa's damage is about 101 and with Splitshot x5 targets = 500+ damage output.

    Drow's damage drop by +110 without her ult. So it's almost half. 100+ dmage left.

    Oh yeah I was wrong. Medusa's damage output is not 4x Drow's but it's actually 5x.

    "but that is when her ult is off. use dragonlance blabla positioning blabla"

    In the real game, if you can't disable drow's ult while playing against her, probably you're too stupid anyway.

    Also, provided Drow have the upper hand to attack first by Silencing Medusa, even with FA slow, medusa has enough tankyness to soak the damage and use ult and attack Drow in the meantime and guess what? Drow dies first anyway.

    Now in real game where blinkers exist, blink daggers exist, STUNS, closing the gap IS NOT HARD.

    If you have hard time playing against Drow, probably the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut and l2p.

    And if you don't have hard time playing as Drow, the design is still shit anyway.

    ---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 PM ----------

    Clinkz has no +80 AGI but he has +130 IAS and +60 damage orb and more damage from eating creeps.

    Also windwalk to close the gap.

    That STATS doesn't matter because it can be REDUCED TO ZERO.

    Why are people too oblivious? Oh my...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2016
  15. Lama051

    Lama051 Moderator

    You guys probably did not get the memo, so again. If you spam gets deleted (like a ton of it) and you start all over again then you probably are not having fruitful discussion again.
     
  16. AvrilLabigne

    AvrilLabigne Well-Known Member

    I've already said: it is brought down to zero by your fault.

    Clinkz has 130IAS for 10 sec, Drow has +80 Agility forever.
     
  17. F.E.A.R.0

    F.E.A.R.0 Well-Known Member

    With Trax not getting any significant change, I can't see her picked as a carry just like our traditional ones (AM, WK, PA, Slark, etc.). This hero only works in a 5 man team. If you pick her in pub or ranked, just pray that your enemies are noobs and your team mates are not retarded. Srsly I don't see how this hero feels good right now, even ET and Venge make better carries than Trax.
     
  18. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Well-Known Member

    People at TI draft around heroes and play practiced drafts. I am talking about your regular pub games over here... unless you also play in TI, well then hats off to ya.
     
  19. mrfokker

    mrfokker Well-Known Member

    Daily reminder that you shouldn't balance a highly competitive game around "your regular pub game".
     
  20. enrico.swagolo

    enrico.swagolo Well-Known Member

    And why not? 99.99% of players play in pubs.
     
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