Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE combo

Discussion in 'Game Strategy' started by boltstorm, Sep 8, 2016.

  1. boltstorm

    boltstorm Well-Known Member

    Well, since the aghs option for alchemist giving aghs i always tought on some alchemist RUSHING aghs for the team, but every time i tried the alchemist just fed and the game went full retard
    this is one line up that worked constantly -
    the lineup is in their farm priority order - UNDYING, ALCHEMIST, AXE, KOTL and LICH
    it really had insanly better results than i expected with a "troll pick" and my main goal with this post is to what diferent people have with results
    after picking it some times on a brasilian in house league making changes every game i think i got one that works really well insanely fun to play.

    First of all on the picking stage you need to make sure they are not getting some insanely strong easy lane and a mid that punishes alchemist really hard, you ban acordingly avoiding their early game power. The tricky part is what itens should alch get to still be relevant in the game? i tried a ultility alch that worked well with DP: making solar crest, assault or lotus if needed, dagger etc. this untility alch didnt work really well with axe. With axe i liked when alch rushed radiance and when dirge got his core itens and start creating chaos on the enemy towers alchemist get the space, makes a ~18~ mins radi AFTER HE GIVES DIRGE AN AGHS and than get itens to help the team or become a carry that will help if everything goes wrong and just split push.
    notes playing some games with the strat

    1 position Undying - offlane with kotl, usually the 4th pick - on the early stages of the game even tought he is the 1 position, he will focus with kotl to disrupt the enemy safelane, exchanging kills and for all cost not letting his carry farm. span decay, rush arcane on dirge, drop arcane every chakra magic and etc. After a few minutes when your solo safe lane hero get his core itens, dirge goes to the safelane to finish his tanking itens and get a few minutes of lasthits, while the safelane core is now on top "creating space". the item decision is a simple question - WHAT WILL MAKE ME TANKIER AGAINST THEIR LINEUP? - blademail is allways good so you have 4 seconds that people wont focus you to stack more hp with decays, than PIPE ( or maybe hood if single target) against heavy magic damage, crimson against a team with drow, luna etc, lotus to dispel silence e fuck lions, beastmaster winter and that shit, shivas is always great, but always buy the plate mail even if not going. heart is a really good choice after you have 2 or 3 tank itens and octarine ( i dont know wich one is better first ) so you can span decay every 3 secs and all other skills and itens ( blademail and lotus FTW) have lower CD

    2 position - Alchemist - mid - usually third pick - alchemist is the key of the strat, he needs to make aghs as soon as possible for dirge, if he can, even skip armlet and make after brown boots , the sooner he gets aghs the sooner dirge can snowball . HARD . he will farm stacks that lich is making to him .
    3 position - this is the only pick i think can change on the strat, its the solo safelane hero, the lastpick of the team, i tried with death prophet and axe but really anything that can solo and have a good impact early can work. dp was good for the pushing power and axe because he can win really hard against melees offlaners ( almost everything on the meta ) and a call followed by 2 decays with aghs with chakra magic at min 10 is unholy. DP worked well to get objectives and axe just roflstomped every game, i had the best results with AXE rushing vanguard on the safe lane, after he gets it he goes to the top lane switching with dirge

    4 position KOTL- (maxing chakra magic first ) here is when things get dirty, kotl + dirge is a really strong lane since lvl 1 and when they hit 3 they punish people really hard, but the best part is when dirge is lvl 7 ( ideally with aghs ) kotl chakra magic dirge and he steals 20 STR in an AOE with no delay, following by +10 str after 4 seconds, thats 30 STr in 4 seconds, some heroes dont even have that much str at 10 minutes lol. some time later in the game when alch catches up he gives kotl an aghs and its a really good iten, kotl can do other iten like force, glimer, hex, lotus or linkens

    5 position lich (mid stack bitch )- at the start of the strat i was making agressive trilanes with dirge, while we all the time won the lane alchemist had a pretty hard time and aghs came a bit late, than i tought of lich - lich can give ice armor boosting dirge survivability by huge amount ( maxing armor first ), his ult is very good to trow in fights that dirge just creates chaos bonus point he can deny the mage creep when sacrifice is off CD, its really good because a mage creep gives almost the same exp as the other 3, so if you deny that you are fucking the enemy mid alot, so ideally lich fucks the mid while stacking / covering alch and dirge + kotl fucks the carry, so when the aghs comes online they are not ideally farmed. lich usually builds mek ( i think kotl can get one earlier but didnt try ) VLADS or VEIL.

    when things work its just insane, i dont know how to send the dotabuff of the matches because they are lobbys but il edit the post with the IDs latter, every one of them i got the aghs only after 15 minutes, the only one the alch managed to farm in 8 minutes he FUCKING MISSCLICKED AND USED ON HIMSELF, than he had to farm another aghs and we just focken lost the game with a useless melee creep with +10 status.

    you just push towers, alch defends, kotl recalls him on some fights and they CANT DO ANYTHING ( or at least in the games i played )

    td;lr just fucking read everything - ok i edited this part following Chrisirhc1996 comment : crazy literally UNDYING dirge geting aghs rushed by alchemist and using 2 decays stealing +10 STR instantly because of chakra magic before 12 mins. sorry for any unchecked mistakes, english is not my native language and i tried to put my mind in words the best
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2016
  2. DasKobold

    DasKobold Well-Known Member

    Re: Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE com

    I wish I had friends to try this with. Every pub idiot is to retarded to realize that after kotl gives you mana you can cast certain spells twice.

    This reminds me, a few days ago a alchemist rushed scepter and gave it to me, I was necro. Was really nice of him, I didn't ask him to do it.
     
  3. SBVenom

    SBVenom Well-Known Member

  4. ark-eXodia

    ark-eXodia Well-Known Member

    Re: Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE com

    if it hit 2-3 enemies with chakra, and you cast it double time in fast way, you can get 40 or 60 str and the enemy lost 20 or 30 str which was alot.

    that's good but i think this skill weakness was enemy positioning and bkb

    and if dirge/kotol got stunned/silenced then hard

    also it makes alche becomes dead weight because you need to rush it to make it effective at early game where the enemy still had low hp.
     
  5. SBVenom

    SBVenom Well-Known Member

    Re: Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE com

    Add morphling somewhere with aghs refresher for another set of dirge + kotl for -40 str every 2-3 seconds.
     
  6. Blarrg

    Blarrg Well-Known Member

    Re: Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE com

    OP has a good idea but he is executing it inefficiently.

    Alchemist can easily rush armlet then go straight into Agha. This can be done fairly easily by minute 11. I'd say by this time you want level 7+ on your supports (Kotl should go 2-1-3-1, 3-1-2-1, or 0-3-3-1 imo), axe should have blink, and undying should have mek+arcanes.

    As soon as the Aghs is given to undying, you can rosh then push and win the game quite easily I assume with such ridiculous aggro.

    The lineup lacks initiation (you're better off saving axe's blink call as a counter initiation) but you don't really need it, just have your alchemist wail on towers with undying and kotl backing him up and most lineups probably can't do anything about it but attempt to win a teamfight which will most likely end horribly for them.

    By 20 minutes you could have something like Radiance on alchemist and possibly an Aghs given to Kotl if he leveled illuminate.

    Overall seems like a super stupid cheese strat that would mostly have trouble with really heavy burst.
     
  7. Anti-Xenophobe

    Anti-Xenophobe Well-Known Member

    Re: Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE com

    There's a huge vacuum period where your team is incredibly passive, namely when Alch is close to or has just finished farming the Agh's.
    An Alch with naked Armlet+Boots 15 minutes in is incredibly squishy and becomes a gank magnet. Having Agh's on Undying won't help, Decay does nothing if Slardar/Axe just jump on your Alch and instantly run away. An Alch with Radiance at least has the advantage of bullying solo heroes away while he's farming and the ability to clear creeps really fast if left alone, which more or less forces the enemy team to invest more than one hero to keeping him in check
    TL;DR Gank Alchemist and screw your whole team over because he's the only hero who can farm at a relevant speed
     
  8. AvrilLabigne

    AvrilLabigne Well-Known Member

    Re: Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE com

    It only works on Refresher Warlock or Luna.
     
  9. Animus2280

    Animus2280 Well-Known Member

    Re: Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE com

    Dirge is really underrated, but make sure to ban drow ranger.
     
  10. WuzuIII

    WuzuIII Well-Known Member

    Re: Dirge + kotl + alch RUSHING AGHA FOR DIRGE com

    looks like one of these 4k lineups. they somehow always have silencer zeus dirge and other shit heroes with 0 splitpush and 0 pushing power in general that get dismantled by any lineup with a brain behind it