Best Support Player

Discussion in 'DotA Chat' started by trollmon, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. trollmon

    trollmon Well-Known Member

    i'm currently practicing support heroes, i wanna see some ZOMGWTF support players own the game, can someone suggest? or give a replay, :ninja:
  2. woozie how

    woozie how Well-Known Member

  3. Dantx

    Dantx Well-Known Member

    Agree with the above poster. EH's 820 is the best in the world.

    I think DTS' NS is the best western support player.
  4. Zieth

    Zieth Well-Known Member

    That's exactly what I was going to post :shock:

    but also I'm pretty awesome.
  5. Skaloon

    Skaloon Banned

    umm actually a suport role is the easiest in DotA

    say what you want, but that's the truth:

    you put a random decent DotA player (i mean a guy who plays in leagues quite high lvl CWs) in a PRO team on CM - he wont screw the game up to badly

    you put a random decent DotA player in a PRO team on let's say solo mid semi-carry (like storm), he gonna screw the game so badly - it's gonna be GG in 20 mins. same would be with hard carry or initiator.

    another argument on this - any PRO player could play a good CM or venge or other suport, but for example MYM|Pusher can't play no necro

    i know i'm gonna get flamed for this, but think before you make an opinion:

    what role would you choose to play if you would suddenly need to stand in for EHOME in some tournament?

    would you want to play cm or traxex?

    i think it's easy answer for anyone
  6. Kalikka

    Kalikka Well-Known Member

    Supporting skills is something you inherit; for example, Swedes' gene pool simply blocks your ability to support your team.
  7. Ichigo

    Ichigo Well-Known Member

    Look at EHome Support players :<.
  8. trollmon

    trollmon Well-Known Member

    no it's not easy.. imagine u rylai in front of nevermore.. one wrong move= death

    btw: ty 4 the rep :shuriken:
  9. NiquiV

    NiquiV Well-Known Member

    Fuck you.

    OT: EH's 820, awesome.
  10. RandomFlamer

    RandomFlamer Well-Known Member

    Only partly true. I guess another argument is that they get almost no creep kills so they are not required to have good last hitting skills, right? Wrong. First you have to define what supporter is. Babysitter? Their era is gone. A part of a tri-lane? Now we are talking totally different things here. You see, your example with CM is good and I've seen it many times that new players and stand ins are put there. But why? Because even after so many changes she is still a walking mana fountain. Even if you suck and cant buy boots you can still click the 2 spells one of which is targetable and the other a huge AoE slow. So in the end whats the conclusion? You cant really screw up badly. Only thing you can do is not feed but even if you feed its mostly ok. Its not that the role is easy, its the hero. Take vangeful spirit for example. Would you say swapping friends and foes where 1 swap can cost you the game(yes I've seen it, when venge couldnt swap enigma in time and it grabbed 4 heroes in black is easy? Would you say playing an earthshaker where 1 bad fissure could block your teammate or allow the enemy to escape is easy? Would you say playing puck is easy when one bad initiation can get your whole team killed? No. Bad players are bad and players who havent played before with the team will suck thats for sure. And this will show. So thats why people put them on heroes where even if you screw up it isnt going to be fatal. Carry players are the shit farming creeps then going out and owning teams with tier 4 items but think about the people who support them, the people who give them this farming space and protect them from gangs. Its not easy, its not the easiest role. Heck there is no easiest role just easiest heroes. And please dont try to tell me how its easier to play sand king constantly putting pressure on the opponent while your team's medusa is happily farming in peace.

    sorry for typos, I wont double check that
  11. Dysania

    Dysania Well-Known Member

    Sorry Skaloon, but you are wildly mistaken.

    The support role is, in my opinion, the most difficult role to play efficiently in DotA. You have to have your carries not die, let them farm, gank, ward and counterward all with no creep kills. You also have no farm, which means you'll have absolutely no hp, but you have to try not to feed.

    In my opinion, Gx on LGD is a pretty solid support player, but I think 820 outshines him just a bit.
  12. RandomFlamer

    RandomFlamer Well-Known Member

    Gx IMO is the best CM there is.
    820's vengeful is legendary
    Dgc form has a killer Enigma.
    X!! from EHOME(even though he is not exactly a support player) has the best Lion hands down
  13. Skaloon

    Skaloon Banned

    everyone talks about venge swaps. there is nothign to it. example if enemy team has enigma with bkb - she is the target to swap when she cast black hole - that is a team figth winner there - but it's easy. same goes on ganked carry you swap him when he is fucked, most important thing - easy to do.
    venge is so easy to play is not even funny, ganking with point click stun, spaming terror wawe, and swaping the most important target (which one is obvious all the time).


    warding - nothing hard there, just good knowledge of DotA, i mean any pro player would know when, what, where to ward.

    stay close to your carry again nothing hard there, stay there, if needed suicide for him, cast your disables and shit. any pro player cna do it

    harrasing is easy too, it's way harded to lane with carry - it requires way more skills - you have to farm, deny, harras and control the lane in the same moment - hard as hell. standing with warlock while suporting spectre (6.64 memories) and hiting enemies when they get a bit closer is easy as hell, all you have to care about is not agroing the creeps. again nothign hard for a good player

    surviving without any items is easy too - noone ask cm or venge to tank nothing. all it takes is good map awerness. once again any pro player can do it

    it's way harder to survive with hard carry - no matter how farmed you are (medusa is exception for this). carry are the main target, carry will be the one who tanks shit.

    this shit about suport role being hard is a myth, what comes form pubs. cause those guys dont have the knowledge of game what is needed for suport or any other role. meanwhile they still can afk farm and have some items with carry and look like they doing a better job then last game feeding with cm. which is not true

    i can bet ya what lightheaven could play venge as good as NS any day. meanwhile i doubt what NS can play as good rexx as light does
  14. Kalikka

    Kalikka Well-Known Member

    You seen Loda supporting?
  15. RandomFlamer

    RandomFlamer Well-Known Member

    lol you are so clueless
    What is the difference between support hero and carry hero then? Last hitting? Isnt this even easier than the things you just listed? Wow you made the game so freaking easy man, you must be so pro lol.

    Seriously I'll give you one more example and shut your mouth for good:
    Why Euro DotA is so behind? Because they dont have quality support players, thats why. All their legends are carry/gankers with the exception of NS and Pusher and even these two are nothing really special. But why is that? Isnt support so easy anybody can pick and play? What is the reason man? You dont have an answer to this so dont bother replaying.
  16. Skaloon

    Skaloon Banned

    europe is behind cause they don't have as good team play as chinese plus their individual skills are behind too. i now what -apm doesn't matter in DotA that much, but when all Ehome team have 200 -apm when DTS have 100-150, it says something. their is nothign to it, people made a fuse from NS, for example, commentators - after a normal-ussual swap saving the carry, goes like:

    "OMG!!! sick swap, NS is the best venge player in the world, well maybe just in europe but still."

    i mean if he hadn't swaped him, i would go like - OMG idiot why didn't he swaped. there is nothing special to it

    carry is harder, first of all it takes a lot of skill to control lane, no matter if you are semi-carry/carry as storm soling mid,, or sittign in trilane with traxex as hard carry. all the pressure is on you, good carry player has to be focused every single second and get the most of every single situation. second, a carry player always has a dillema, which takes really good sense of game to solve - help your team to def or fight in the situation or go farm - choice is his if he makes a bad choice and his team loose teh figth of it could be a game - or if he tp's to help on false alarm now he lost 20 cs, again bad. carry has to make the most of it of every single situation from teh start to teh begining of the game. and ONE mistake can cost your team a game - simple example gettign picked off with no revive gold late game - you loose two raxes while reviving. all the pressure is on 1-2 main carries in team - they have to be the best players in team, they can't make any mistakes. BTW maelk started to play necro for a reason, he is the most experienced player in MYM.

    watch a replay with locked camera on zsmj, his desicions are so sick, so precise.

    it takes a great player to play a good suport - it takes a robot to play a good carry
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  17. RandomFlamer

    RandomFlamer Well-Known Member

    Nice, you started making sense. I will drop this asia thing I said before, irrelevant now.

    All you said is true however there are 3 very important things.
    1st its not the carry's decision always. The team must have good communications if it wants to succeed so yes, the team has influence on the carry's decisions. If they tell him its not needed for him to TP back, they can hold it and he should go farm different line he has to cooperate.
    2nd You watch only one side of the coin - the carry. And even more - 1 situation where the carry is only one. This thing happens rarely nowadays when we have 1 trilane and 2 solo. Lines. This means at least 2 people need to control their line and farm fast. The pressure is devided. Sure the medusa will have most impact in late game but in the beginning one rhasta could be very and I mean VERY damn important. See? And its not even the carry hero more like pusher and later, yes, supporter. Roles are not set in stone. The pressure is not focused on one player only during the entire game.
    3rd These carry players have naturally more gold and better items. Which also means buybacks and aegis. Imagine a squishy support hero 60 minutes into the game with farmed storm creeping in the woods. Imagine this hero having very important spells like hex and he must totally execute them before he gets instagibbed by the farmed opposition. Now imagine a morph with full inventory waveforming in and starting to right click shit not caring whats happening around him.

    Again I am not trying to say support is the hardest role. All I am saying is that there are heroes which skills and role make them harder to play right. Enigma is one such example - a gamebreaking hero who can win the game or lose it in several seconds. And we have Alchemist who can charge in without caring wtf will happen cuz he is fed up and rocking an ultimate bro!
  18. Blarrg

    Blarrg Well-Known Member

    EHome Lion vs ToT (08/01/10)

    EHOME's popular solo mid Lion (played by X!!) farms a quick dagger treads and carries the game through his ganking and initiation.
  19. Skaloon

    Skaloon Banned

    no no no, i ain't talking about farming lion or rhasta. when i'm saying suport i mean the ward bitch with no farm/early ganker/one skill hero late game. i would call a solo lion semi-carry, the game is on him. and again I ain't talking just about hard carries, i'm talking about all the farming heroes. which ussually are 3. these guys have to be the best players in the team. there is a reason why 2009 from lgd.sgty played their solo mid almost everytime, the game was on him and he was the best player in their team. when he left the other two main players - ZSMJ and YYF started to solo mid. a farming rhasta is no suport, what's the diffrence from solo mid lion, solo rhasta or solo storm. storm is semi-carry/carry, meanwhile if rhasta solos, gets bots, dagger, agha under 30 mins, that's no suport (but everyone insists on calling him that way), that's the main hero in their team.

    hard carry is not the hardest role, the hardest role is usually the solo mid, like storm, nevermore, lion or others. let's call it semi-carry\ganker. i dunno it's hard to name solo lions role, but is definitely not just suport. i mean he is the main carry for his team in the game until like minute 30.

    WD, venge, cm, not solo lion, other ward bitches with no farm is way easier to play than any other role.


    another thing i remembered from ESWC:
    remember Kurok playing in for the ESWC. he is the carry/semi-carry player (morph, lanaya). the fun part was he could not play it well at this kinda lvl of games. finally he ended up playing suports (WD) for the last few games with and he doesn't play suport at all. it's like:

    "you suck dude - here play a suport"
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  20. ChibiNya

    ChibiNya Well-Known Member

    Yeah, Support is usually an easier job. Mainly because of the lower expectations the team has from you after early-game. A Carry must not die, ever... He is the one who is supposed to do all and better not fuck up anytime >.< It's a lot of pressure.

    Its also mainly a preference thing... Some people just can't do it regardless of their individual skill. I'm proud to say it is the role I'm most fit to fill.

    Regarding amazing players GX is a standard nowadays, CH from the same team plays a more aggresive support style. (Almost always Venge).

    Pusher is one I remember frondly that isn't chinese :p Really don't think there are many renown players of this role..