Batman v Superman (spoiler in spoiler tag)

Discussion in 'Random Chat' started by Nicolas_Cage, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    Whelp, I just finished watching it, and I have to say, while I enjoy it a lot, the critics (around 35% on Rotten Tomatoes) is entirely justificable. Here are non spoiler recap on the movie:
    +)The bad:
    I have to talk about the bad first, because that's how the movie is. The beginning of the movie (beside the opening) is so fucking terrible I can't even know how to explain it (actually I do). If the entire movie was like the first part of it, I'd completely turn away from superhero movie in the future. The pacing, the story, the characters and the screening are all over the place. It's a huge mess. There was no characterisation, no progress in the story, the screens are disconnected, there are also out-of-place slow motion where there shouldn't any slow motion there at all. There was a Batman action scene that's supposed to be exciting but I just don't feel it. It's like a show of multiple 5-pages comics linking together to make a movie. There is no room to "breath" at all. It's so bad I almost fall asleep for the first 30 minutes of the movie.
    The movie also requires the viewers to link parts together by themselves. This is bad cinematography.
    +)The good:
    The movie picks up after a certain plot point. The pace started to be steady and it's when the movie actually entertain the viewers. Comicbook easter eggs started to show up, things starting to make sense, character started to show up instead of being the shadow of themselves previously. The action scenes are great, the stake is big and it makes people feels.

    After all, I truly believe that Jack Snyder is the problem in this movie, just because of his terrible editing that makes the first part of the movie (the build up) to be fucking bad and it hurts the movie entirely. However, there is still hope for DC cinematic universe. The ending that lead to it is solid, the characters are not ruined , the movie is still entertaining to watch and it's not out right terrible in every shapes of form like other bad movies like Fantastic 4.
    How do you think, have you watched it? If not then do you still want to watch it?
    Also I feel sorry for Ben Affleck. He did absolutely nothing wrong in this movie
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  2. RisaStoleMyHart

    RisaStoleMyHart Well-Known Member

    Yup just watched it an hour ago. I can see why a lot of people would not like it, it's almost entirely the pacing and editing fault. I can live with Batman killing, i don't know why normies think Batman has this iron NO KILL policy, when he does kill in Nolan movies, and Tim Burton movies. And this Batman is heavily inspired by TDKR Batman.

    Opening is pretty good. Snyder seems to love adding one particular scene in his opening montages. Watchmen = When hippie girl places flower onto gun. Zoom in onto gun and slow mo trigger and shooting shot. Happens with Martha Wayne's pearls.

    But when comic book movie expectations are so high, just cool visuals won't make it a good movie. The editing and pacing is so fucking bad. This scene last for 15 seconds with different characters then moves to another scene which lasts for 15 seconds with different characters or just 1 character. Repeat until 3rd act of the movie. I agree first 30 minutes it was quite boring.

    Action sequences are orgasm, especially the space scene! And there are no faceless army to beat up unlike Avengers or Avengers 2.

    Batffleck proved all the haters wrong, probably the most 'comic book' Batman that's ever been on-screen. Wonder Woman is good as well, as a supporting character. I mean you can't really fuck it up when you have like 15 lines, most of the fighting is done by CG and stunt doubles. Cavill is a good Superman but he wasn't given much to work on.

    I really thought with Chris Terrio coming in to help with the script, it could compensate for Snyder's lack of ability to story-tell, but it was just bad. And Goyer was credited for script again. Goyer and Snyder i believe need to be fired. If BvS doesn't make cash, DC will suffer quite a bit. It has less RT score than Paul Blart's Mall Cop.

    Scrape Cyborg, Shazam, Justice League 2, Aquaman and make a Batman solo with movie with Affleck acting and directing, based on Jason Todd storyline. And a Man of Steel 2 with George Miller directing.
  3. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator

    Lengthy rant (spoilers):

    1) Lex Luthor in this movie is horrible. First things first, he is nothing like the actual Lex Luthor. The real Lex Luthor is supposed to be a self-centered megalomaniac with very clear plans with Machiavellian intentions. And he is also bald from the get-go.
    This Lex Luthor is a "muh daddy beat me" psycho that talks to himself, constantly whispers incoherent crap, having obsessive-compulsive mannerisms and basically being more Dark Knight-Joker than Lex Luthor.
    And that final scene with that booger hanging from his nose for a solid 30 seconds is hideous.

    2) Gigantic plot holes everywhere. You have Lois Lane magically learning about things the heroes say between themselves like the kryptonite spear which Batman towards the very end admits he has to get back and somehow Lois knows it without even being in the same scene and running to get the spear, almost drowning in the process.
    You also have that extremely convenient part where Superman doesn't realize there is a bomb in the capitol or whenever he can't save someone immediately unless it's Lois Lane 3 continents away. I mean, seriously, why couldn't he fly immediately after confronting Lex and save his mother? Is he not fast enough? Can't he locate her with his super hearing and vision?
    And the stupidest of them all, the ending. You have both Superman and Clark Kent dead in the end because Kent was "reporting the battle". Okay, what happens when Superman gets back? How does he reintroduce himself as Clark Kent? What does he say? That he struck a deal with Jesus? That his body which was buried and put in the casket was fake and he was just lost? And not only that, what did the medical judge say upon confronting the body? Didn't the body look like Superman AND Clark Kent even if the others removed his Superman costume? Didn't the medical judge find it suspicious that Superman is pronounced dead yet there is only one body around which is supposed to belong to Clark Kent? What the fuck were they thinking when they wrote that ending?

    3) Heroes are killing all the time. In Man of Steel, one of the most important plot points is Superman resorting to killing a fellow Kryptonian, even if he's evil. Superman and Batman are traditionally avoiding murder, even against extremely vindictive and evil foes like the Joker. Yet here, Batman kills minor bad guys like it's nothing.
    The movie clearly picks up the idea of people getting pissed in Man of Steel about fighting in crowded city areas, killing innocent civilians. It plays it cleverly I have to admit, as a starting point for the conflict with Batman. However, it makes dumb excuses for in-city action like "this port is abandoned". Oh really? What are the odds? Totally not a shady excuse to handwave a major plot point, eh?

    4) The introduction to the rest of the Justice League cast is atrocious. Randomly placed videos on a hard drive, offering convenient exposition? Wow. This is the worst possible introduction to a major character in the history of cinema. This is about universe-building with major movies coming out about every single one of them, yet they throw it in our face in the laziest manner possible. There is a fine line between an easter egg and overstating your welcome and those cameos certainly did.
    The previous Flash easter egg hinting into the future was good. It was short, did its job clearly and introduced us to a (non-spoiled and overstated) hint in the future of the DC cinematic universe. Even though the hint sounds awfully like the plot of Injustice.

    5) There is a profound lack of happiness, hope or any positive feeling. The movie is taking itself so seriously, that not a single scene offers a tad bit of the good side of humanity. Superman is serious, Batman is always serious (okay, that one fits), no character ever expresses any other feeling but sadness, anger or a "sense for a higher purpose". The only scene that is remotely having some form of humanity is the scene where Batman saves Superman's mother and when he says he is a friend of his, she answers she knows from the cape.
    That's it folks. That's all the humour and liveliness you are gonna get from this movie. Zack Snyder apparently still thinks he is directing Watchmen, something he did badly as well, even though that style would resonate well in that narrative. Not every DC film has to be dark and gritty. Stop trying to replicate the Dark Knight in every movie.

    The good things:

    1) The action sequences are good. The battle between Superman and Batman is decent and the final battle with Doomsday is entertaining.

    2) There are no clearly bad acting performances here unlike that barking bulldog-Zod from Man of Steel. Lex Luthor's iteration is still an abomination though.

    3) The new Alfred is better imo. He is shown much more involved and seems more capable than the typical butler view that previous movies have shown.

    4) The visuals are good, albeit a bit overblown. Same goes for the sound, even though the music is either repetitive or just "meh". It's not uplifting to enhance the action, it's not bombastic or grandiose to create a feeling of epicness, it's not catchy or distinct enough to leave any impact. It's just there.

    5) Various scenes are genuinely great. For example, the scene where Batman fights Superman and is ready to impale him, but is interrupted because of Superman saying "you are letting him kill Martha". That scene does its job perfectly: It's neither convenient or lazy in making Batman somehow stopping whacking at Superman and it shows the emotional conflict of Batman about his parents without throwing it in our faces on purpose.

    Movie is mediocre in general. I don't think such low reviews are entirely justified, but for the expectations it built for itself, it surely does deserve a slap in the face.
  4. RisaStoleMyHart

    RisaStoleMyHart Well-Known Member

    If the editing and pacing of this movie was flawless, remove all the shoe-horned Justice League set up (cameos and Knightmare scenes) except Wonder Woman. And make almost the entire movie about Batman and Superman's ideological differences about justice, and 'Does the world really need a Superman?' Also doesn't hurt to add in more lighter tones, i think this movie could've been the best DC movie that's non-Nolan.

    >Star in Daredevil that had a shit tonne of problems but his performance wasn't even an issue why the movie failed.
    >Evanescence - Bring Me To Life.mp3
    >Says he'll never appear in another cape movie again
    >Snyder and Nolan convince him to be the next Batman
    >Internet lose their mind, b-but look at how shit Daredevil was!
    >BvS comes out. 30% Rotten Tomatoes literally worse than Thor movies, Iron 2 and 3, Paul Blart's Mall Cop, X-men Origins and Last Stand which killed the franchise etc.

    Although even most critics who hated BvS say Ben Affleck was a good Batman. So there's that.
  5. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    About Lex Luthor:
    He's actually Alexander Luthor, Lex Luthor's son. When he reference his dad he meant the real Lex Luthor.
    Anyway the movie did a terrible job explaining that, making the viewer, again, having to connect the dots themselves.
    They might just remove Clark Kent entirely in the future. The scenes they have with him in the Daily planet are terrible anyway.
  6. Eutychius

    Eutychius Moderator

    That explains it (even though actual Lex Luthor is also "Alexander", this one's the junior apparently). The character was still atrocious though. He still seems like a Dark Knight-Joker wannabe and extremely obnoxious. Among my top 5 worst comic book movie villains ever.

    That would mean they take a giant shit over the Superman mythos in a non-productive way. Not only did they make Clark Kent have a shit appearance in the movie with minimal role in the plot, but they wrote themselves into a corner.
    It's preferable if they just didn't fuck up to begin with and try to fix his characterization.
  7. RisaStoleMyHart

    RisaStoleMyHart Well-Known Member

    Any of you find a lot of easter eggs?
  8. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    There are a lot of obvious easter eggs that's hard for comic fans not to find.
    Let me see:
    Obvious future Justice League members.
    Dark Seid
    Flash travelling back to time
    Wonder Woman's movie (with Chris Pine in the picture)
    Mother box in Cyborg
    Idk about the less obvious ones, gonna see.
  9. RisaStoleMyHart

    RisaStoleMyHart Well-Known Member

    I think those are the most obvious ones. The only one that's less obvious i found are...

    Phantasm reference in Alfred's dialogue


    Under Superman statue there is a picture of Action comics #1 aka when Superman is holding the car. This can be seen when the guy with no-legs looks at the tributes, before he climbs up to spray paint


    That's all i can remember. I think 80% of this movie is inspired by TDKR, this is nothing new but i didn't know they would adapt it this much. Doomsday origin in this movie is a mix of New 52 Bizzaro.

    Nuclear bomb


    Giant Bat jump scare

  10. Akhdas

    Akhdas Well-Known Member

    it's like eating a bad food and when you finished, there's an advertisement for a certain meal that i haven't tried from that restaurant.

    i feel like every superhero movie now will only kickstart another movie they are planning on making.

    the fighting is kinda predictable and rushed. wonder woman is used for an ex-machina. feels like the writer don't even bother with batman v superman fight. "hey im superman and im stronger than batman" "hey i have kryptonite" "curse you old man jenkins" its point per point, they're not even being subtle about it.
  11. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    Wonder Woman isn't ex-machina. In fact the story would be the same if she's completely removed.
    She's there for Justice League.
  12. Akhdas

    Akhdas Well-Known Member

    i was referring to when batman was about to get roasted by doomsday and she suddenly just showed up
  13. Necalli

    Necalli Well-Known Member

    I'm going to watch tomorrow. I didn't read the spoilers, but the critics you're giving are scaring me a little.
  14. TheImperial

    TheImperial Well-Known Member

    Batman is a serial killer there and everybody like "no big deal muh".
  15. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    The only instance where Batman has no kill rule in cinematic universe is in Nolan's. He killed a shit ton of people in Tim Burton's movies while smiling like a maniac.

    ---------- Post added at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------

    If you know comic book (especially DC) you'll be fine. If you don't you'll be confused as shit.
  16. TheImperial

    TheImperial Well-Known Member

    Well I watched cartoons where he is not killing anyone. In fact it's what makes Batman himself: always being on the edge of becoming killer but not crossing the lane. When he is just going on a killing spree don't help his character or movie at all.

    ---------- Post added at 04:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:03 AM ----------

  17. RisaStoleMyHart

    RisaStoleMyHart Well-Known Member

    Did someone say Batman doesn't kill?


    He's killed in elseworld comics and canon.
    BvS Batman is someone who's been in the cowl for 20 years, and it's implied some or one of the bat family members have died. This is Miller's Batman so he's much more brutal.

    Also there's no reason they can't make Batman stop killing after this movie as he becomes a Justice League member.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  18. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    spoiler dude.
    Anyway batman in this universe seems pissed and stopped giving shit
  19. Necalli

    Necalli Well-Known Member

    Watched it and, dude, I wonder why Zack Snyder loves too much explosions. Pretty good, really good movie. Except for the exaggerated amount of explosions... And I disliked the soundtrack. Ofc there are things in spoilrrs tag you all said that are 90% true. I enjoyed it.
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  20. Nicolas_Cage

    Nicolas_Cage Well-Known Member

    Hope the Ultimate cut would be better when they add removed scenes like in Watchmen.