Discussion in 'DotA Chat' started by IceFrog, Jun 15, 2009.
this would be SOOO fucking imba
A little nerf to TC would be nice. My biggest problem with him is that ghost -> stun is basically a risk-free move which guarantees a huge damage ultimate spell of his almost 100% chance to hit. TC can actually stand out of of battle while casting his spells ( range-melee hybrid? ;E) yet if he isnt interrupted, he does hard damage. My point is, either create some restriction on ghost-stun, so he actually HAS TO GO IN to use his skills, or tweak the numbers (mainly range, cast time, duration of stun). Also, for reasons mentioned already in the thread, Quelling Blade should be nerfed a bit or made a jungle-exclusive item.
Exclude Radiance from triggering Sticky Napalm damage. Reduce TC's strength gain.
I actually think reducing his starting int and int gain would be a really nice nerf. It'll still give him the potential that he has right now, but not make it too easy to actually reach it because he will have some mana problems.
I was completely surprised by the love Icefrog showed Dark Seer. Reading the changelog on the reduced cd for ion shell I thought it was meant for multiple units only to discover it stacks! The spell now does double the dmg/second on a single unit.
Could surge have a similar cd reduction in v6.61?
I would like to see Wall of Replica receive an improvement or adjustment. Right now its only good for pushing or stopping pushes. Until level 3 I don't find it that helpful in team battles.
I propose the following 'adjustment':
"Raises a wall out of pure mana across the landscape. Heroes who attempt to pass through it are blocked and will have images of themselves emerge from the wall to serve under the Dark Seer until the wall's duration is up."
No it wouldnt, just increase the cooldown. Would make it an AoE stun like Blackhole or Overgrowth. You trying to say Overgrowth and Blackhole are Imba?
Specifically to balance issues created by the most recent patch:
-Qblade is fine. It buffs heroes that were awful before. Between this and PMS near as I can tell the point of this patch was to equalize late-game and early game heroes a bit. Due to boosted jungle rates some old Agl heroes actually get a leg up. Still not the best picks by any means, but it helps.
-TC needs a slight synergy nerf. Take THD for example. He's got a disable to set up for his Ult, but it doesn't grant a sure-hit of full Macropyre damage if you land the thing. TC's Ult should be a similar case. Spread out the damage-dealing into multiple hits such that it can be escaped unless an ally pins down the target. Have the damage begin earlier in the animation and add the slow/vacuum to the last hit of the animation.
-Naga and Lancer got hit in their mid/late game due to the change with Manta. Now don't get me wrong, the change to Manta was a good thing since it's viable on more heroes now. But a boost to their image count is in order to make up for the fact that they have to spend more gold now to get weaker images and less mana burn. I would suggest four 40% damage images for Naga and an image cap of six on Juxtapose rather than five.
-Silencer isn't bothered by animation canceling now, but heroes like Death Prophet still do his job better while at the same time being good for other things. Why not add a two second silence to his Glaives of Wisdom orb? Could keep a single foe silenced over the course of a team battle or maybe even two with enough skill on the part of the player.
-Sniper has traded pushing power for a slightly more relevant team presence with his AoE slow. Did you guys ever try combining the old Scattershot effect with the new Shrapnel effect? More versatility is something he desperately needs.
And for good measure, a few other random balance issues that have been around since before the patch.
-Weaver. His stats. They're bad. Very bad. His orb really hurts him more than it helps. While he can chase he has no way of pinning down a foe. Boosting his stats seems in order. Making Germinate a non-orb would help him immensely. Allow crits/MKB to trigger off of it. Give Shakuchi a speed-leech akin to Grave Chill in addition to its minimal damage. Now you have a decent chaser.
Aaaaaaand that's it for the time being.
I think we should nerf quelling blade.
Furion needs some help, especially with quelling blade now. Make his tree ring Two trees thick, so that way quelling won't hard counter it. Or replace the tree model with a new type of tree or something else which won't be chopable.
Dazzle is sub-par. He is useful, but other heroes are much more viable (see competitive scene). Shallow grave is his trademark but it's currently not very helpful. It is very easy to walk next to a fleeing enemy for 5 seconds to last-hit him when it wears off. It needs some sort of small side-effect, like remove unit pathing, small ms boost, or increase the duration.
Most people liked necro's old death pulse skulls. I never heard one person say they needed to be changed. The flying death skulls are kind of his signature. Give them back to necro, and then change dirge's healing projectiles to the green energy.
Glyph needs to be removed. Many good threads about this so I won't elaborate.
Change the way how RD handles a user's time running out. Most people assume it gives them a random hero, but it doesn't work that way and is not very obvious to the user. This gets really annoying to explain every game. In almost every mid to high level RD game in TDA or garena, there is always one person who doesn't understand this concept.
Put techies back in RD.
Please get terrain snow working again, this was my favorite change in 6.60
My quick two cents:
There needs to be a way to counter poison damage better; this might be very uneducated on the mechanics of me but in my experience it seems like the dmg is not affected by armor nor magic resistance. This makes venomancer and viper both VERY powerful and the only real counter I can find is loading up health.
Vipers Nethertoxin: this skill is solid but not OP in my opinion
TC: Definately needs something done. His ult is absolute ownage and his stun+ ult combo is a teamwrecker. Perhaps leaving the stun alone on TC is fine, but his image stuns for less time? He really shouldnt be able to get a stun long enough to guarantee you dont even have time to move out of his ult.... especially since under the right circumstances he chunks off 35% of THE ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM on a skill that cools down stupid fast. Another option might be to get rid of his AOE stun and make it a stun that hits the nearest target, 1 stun for the TC and 1 for the spirit. At least the rest of the team could try and GTFO then.
Poor man shields probably shouldn't stack. At least in most pubbies it looks like this is quick becoming a must have for most heros.
Ghostwand (scepter? i dont remember atm) should amp up healing if you're going to spend that much money on it... and possibly a duration increase to 6 seconds
Mortreds phantom strike- perhaps give it the same mechanic as ogres multicast now? She's facerolled every game i've seen her played just because of that one skill.
@Icefrog; thanks for your continued dedication to listening to the community and producing a top notch game that, by all accounts, blizzard should be thanking you for helping keep ANYONE playing War3. LoL
Please change the model of Zeus.
In Greek mythology, Zeus is the king of the gods, the ruler of Mount Olympus and the god of the sky and thunder.
So the pathetic dwarfish model witch is currently used doesn't represent Zeus even 1%
Uhh, I like this kind of thread :
- I understand that new hero should be overpower a little bit so everyone will like to test it out. But TC is too imba, so it's time to nerf him, heavily.
My 6.61 Changelog:
- Nerf TC starting Int/Int gain, nerf TC starting Str/Str gain.
- Nerf Echo Stomp stun duration, increase the casting time.
- Nerf Ancestral Spirit casting range, increase CD, increase manacost, scale down the damage (60/120/180/240)
- Nerf Natural Order 20/40/60/80%.
- Increase Earth Splitter manacost 175/275/375, increase CD. Ground cracking speed increase per level.
- Nerf Batrider base damage, starting Str and Str gain.
- Nerf Beastmaster's Quilbeast slows ms by 15/20/25%, HP 300/400/500.
- Buff Centaur's Double Edge CD to 10, increase range to (200), reduce manacost (50).
- Earthshaker's Enchant Totem last 3 seconds instead of 1 attack.
- Replace Sniper's Take Aim with Arctic Warfare Magnum (Immobile but highly increase attack speed and range).
- Improve Naga Siren damage or attack speed a little bit.
- Nerf Mirana leap range.
- Reduce SA Permanent Invisibility fade time a little bit, but hero source damage will refresh the fade time. (He still has IMBA-Smoke and blink strike to survive)
- Silencer's CotS -Slow MS, deals damage over time, leak certain % of max mana if cast a spell.
- Glaives of Wisdom - silence enemy for 1 second, 40% damage from INT, CD 4/3/2/1 seconds.
- Reduce Focus Fire manacost : 100/200/300. (No one will spend 200 mana to deals 50% damage at lv6, look at Sand King Epicenter at lv6)
- Laguna Blade stuns target for 2 seconds and purge for 2 seconds afterward, deals total damage over 2 seconds.
- Buff Battery Assault.
- Buff Faceless Void Str and Agi a bit.
- Nerf Bounty Hunter Str.
- Increase Plasma Field mana cost. Reduce Static Link duration.
- Reduce Stone Gaze CD.
- Increase Lanaya attack range or Psi Blades.
- Remove Ursa's Overpower casting animation, make it instant like Enrage.
- Nerf Tinker Str gain.
- Buff Shadow Priest's Poison Touch damage, make it magical damage.
- Nerf Shadow Shaman's Mass Serpent Ward casting range.
- Buff Bristleback's Warpath stacking IAS heavily.
- Axe's Battle Hunger need 5 normal attacks to cancel.
- Nerf Chaos Knight Str gain.
- Buff Balanar's base damage, Crippling Fear miss chance 20/30/40/50%, IAS Hunter in the Night 25/50/75/100%.
- Pit Lord's Pit of Malice creates corpses.
- Scale Pudge's Meat Hook range: 650/800/950/1100.
- Broodmother's Spin Web ms bonus : 10/16/22/28%.
- Buff Bone Fletcher's base damage, attack animation, attack speed. Reduce Strafe CD (20) and manacost (50).
- Buff Nerubian Weaver attack range, Str/Str gain, Agi/Agi gain. Watcher can be sacrifice to slow a target.
- Shadowraze CD 10->12 seconds, manacost 70/75/80/85.
- Buff Spectre base damage a bit, lower armor. Haunt manacost: 100/150/200. Image take 300% damage, deal 20% damage.
- Nerf Nethertoxin.
- Buff Doom Agi/Agi gain.
- Buff Midnight Pulse casting range (600).
- Upheaval not channeling with lower slow rate, increase casting range.
- Buff Queen of Pain Int/Int gain, buff Shadow Strike CD (14s). manacost(100), casting range, duration (40 damage every 2 sec last 12 sec). Reduce Sonic Wave CD.
- Buff Astral Imprisonment, Int steals : 4/6/8/10.
- Bloodstone max 5 charges.
- Dagon max upgrade 3 times : 400/550/700 damage.
- Nerf Force Staff casting range.
- Change True Strike from MKB to Rapier.
- Nerf town portal and BoT casting time (4s).
- Nerf Kelen's Dagger CD (30), blink range (600), or remove this item (since there's a Force Staff)
- Magic Wand can be upgrade to reduce CD.
- Cyclone lasts 3 seconds.
- Buff Hand of Midas cost (800g), reduce CD(75).
- Quelling Blade cost (275g), 18% damage bonus to range hero.
Sorry for long post, have a nice day. :rambo:
^ Awesome post
PLEASE READ MY TOPIC
1) nerf TC's Ulti (it is like Dirge's f***ing ult with a stun! It screams "nerfsitcky me!" all over my screen on cast).
2) Nerf Batrider base damage or attack range. The other tanky int hero, THD, has way less damage and pitiful 400 range.
3) Nerf Rikimaru smokescreen. 70% miss, silence and slow on mass aoe! [ironic]I know it is meant to be a Krobelus' counter (aka Ghostbuster),[/ironic] but it need to be so imba to do that?
4) Fix Jakiro's turning problem and cast animation, and give him a better range (500?).
5) Out with Unholy Rage's ridiculous duration (I'm 90% positive you've been working so hard in 6.60 that you didn't even notice the nerf to it). Lifesteal the old-fashioned way!
6) Improve Treant's Eyes cast range or vision range (it lost much range now it can't be placed above the normal terrain).
That is it for now. Thanks for DotA, Icy, and take it easy (unless when nerfing Rikimaru : Nerfstick him the hardcore way!).
give sentry/ob wards a button to self-destruct.
Well.. buffing furion might be a good idea
You assume too many nerfs, including the unnecessary/nonsense ones such as Bloodstone charge, Dagon upgrade, TP and BoT casting time (wtf 3s waiting is already like hell), Dagger cd and range (I dont even know what you were thinking), Doom agility (he doesn't need it anyway), CK's str gain (wtf is he too tanky for you to kill?), Laguna Blade (wtf), Beastmaster's Quillbeast nerf, too many nerfs on TC
I'd love to see buffs to Clockwerk, Obsidian Destroyer, Queen of Pain, and Visage. Maybe restore the stun on Naix's wounds since he wasn't really overpowered in the first place.
Minor Nerfs to Enigma, Necrolyte, Krobelus, and Undying.
There´s a lot of things pretty bad in your changelog but some VERY good.
Nerfing not competitive heroes is never good. Buffing Competitive heroes is never good.
put this in your mind always and u will make a changelog better then ice ones.
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