6.61 Development

Discussion in 'DotA Chat' started by IceFrog, Jun 15, 2009.

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  1. iishy

    iishy Well-Known Member

    This is awesome! It's been awhile since we got constant updates. :D Thank you! Hope it'll be great!
  2. Averagedog

    Averagedog Well-Known Member

    I will think of more later, but, I've been playing a lot of games as the Sniper lately.

    Shrapnel is definitely much more useful than the previous skill. But the lack of any non item devoted escape skill the sniper is just food for anyone with ranged stun abilities or faster MS.

    Please merge Headshot and Take Aim together and replace one of the slots with an escape skill.

    What came to my mind was something like Rikimaru's smokebomb. As long as the sniper is in the smoke, he is invisible. when he leaves the smoke he remains invisible for 2 seconds. during the duration, he gets an MS boost of 20 percent. So in essence, basically like Spider's web but more spammable like 20 seconds or so. This would at least allow the sniper to increase his chances of escape.

    as for the first skill in context with the sniper, if you want to make the sniper able to spam the spell in early game, increase his base intelligence but as for his stats in general, I'd say reduce the sniper's int gain. On my second game with the sniper, I was able to basically spam assassinate as soon as I got an orchid's and used those earnings to get a lothars to abscond quickly to safety. I used shrapnel early game to harass my lane foes neither of which could sneak up on me or stun since they lacked the skills to do so. in fact, my only competition was a Drow also with Lothars and able to dish out much more damage. I had a Lothars, Treads, Sange, Guinsoo's, Orchid's, and Shivas
  3. Nobody

    Nobody Well-Known Member

    i looked throguh the first page and this has been forgot...

    BUFF THE PIG!!! we miss the old bristle ),=

    Nerubian assasin might need a tiny nerf and have his Spiked Carapace remade since it doesn't fit his assassin theme

    Think about remaking Silencer's last word so that it dosen't force people to use spells, maybe nerf the hp loss and then add a mana penalty if the hero affected casts a spell

    Remake sniper... he is still broken with concept, he's just too much rightclick and then ulti and too little teamplay hero.

    Slightly buff manta style images (maybe 7% more damage) they lost too much from 6.59d

    buff magic wand hp/mana gain per chharge to 16 or 17 since it is not really worth making because normaly you could use it as a constant interval heal between spells but not you need to mass charges and you rarely get more than 10 so the upgrade from magic stick doesn't really help.

    buff clarity potions to heal 100 mana over 20/25 secounds instead of 30 enemy's got too long time to stop them =/

    Maybe add an item that combines Mekanism and Arcane ring for mana+hp it would really be a great support item and could make them more usefull lategame.

    thats all ^^
  4. Coco4wocks

    Coco4wocks Member

    I would like to see that, first and foremost on the priority list, the understrength heroes that were neglected in the 6.60 update get a rework.

    Nerubian Weaver, Techies, Silencer, Furion, Terrorblade, Bone, Sniper, Phantom Lancer, Night Stalker, Faceless, Pit Lord will most certainly welcome small improvements to make them more viable both in pub and competitive play. This could however consume more time than what is expected of 6.61

    The one thing to remember is that: don't be so quick to nerf or improve any of the changes/features made in 6.60! If I were Ice, I wouldnt touch any of the new heroes, reworks, and even the heroes benefitting in a huge manner from some of the additions (like Scepter/Force Staff). It takes at least 2-3 months for people as a whole to judge the true quality and value of certain combinations and how to maximise the potential of different skills. So lay off all the new additions!

    Also focus on the corrections of the erroneous tooltips.
  5. iishy

    iishy Well-Known Member

    I agree with nobody. Small changes like buffing clarities, a few more % damage to manta images, and maybe a slight buff to magic wand really helps changes the item's viability.
  6. Odin

    Odin Well-Known Member

    I also think that Juggernaut's ultimate should be slightly nerfed at its lower levels. Or maybe just remove the invulnerability on it, and have it increase his armor while it's on, making it interruptable by stuns. As things stand, it's far too powerful of a chasing skill. Well, at least in my experience.
  7. Remni

    Remni Well-Known Member

    TC definitely needs some form of power adjustment.. lower obviously. Much the same for Bat Rider.

    Personally I'd like to see Aghanim's be able to effect Visage, giving his Revs more HP/Magic Red%/DMG. Or maybe just give him one more Rev to summon.

    I'd also like to see if we could get Minion icons added to the top of the map, much like your Hero icon that sits in the top left corner. So for Visage, you'd get a Revenant icon, for Furion you'd get Tree icon and for Enigma, you'd get the minis icon. You could also get one added for when you buy a Necro book. It'd be far easier to manage your minions when all you need to do is click the icon and it selects them all for you.
  8. squ1sh

    squ1sh Member

    I have quite a bit to say, but hopefull Icey will get one good idea or inspiration for something. :rofl:
    Also, I'm in graduate school for game design so I spend my time thinking of dota mechanics. DotA is the game dev dream... being able to talk to the developer through a purely community based game. I take my hat off to IceFrog and all the other people who make this game happen.


    Queen of Pain
    - Scale her scream's mana to something like 85/100/120/140
    - Sonic wave needs a cooldown reduction, and damage reduction to match. I'd say something like 250/350/450 in damage but have the c/d be 135/95/55 to be competitive with Lion/Lina's nuke time scaling

    - Make his trees he summons have 1/2 duration invulnerability or something. Too many counters to his disable. Or, have the trees slow anyone who destroys them for 2 seconds (trees revenge!)
    - Change ult to something more thematic and useful.

    - Get rid of strafe, add a 3 second IAS bonus to his windwalk when he comes out of it.
    - Strafe replace with a passive that adds attack speed based on how far he's traveled since he last attacked. Great synergy with WW! For instance, he gains 5/10/15/20 attack speed per 400 dist for 2/4/6/8 seconds (based on how long since his last attack) capped at 35/50/65/80.
    - Searing Arrows needs to be buffed. I'd say increase the damage to 12/26/38/50 and increase mana cost to 10 each.

    Clinkz would now have more direct synergy with WW and Strafe, and his arrows would be more effective with the buff. The passive is terrific for ganks which is what he should have.

    Leoric (needs update, inferior to sven now)
    - Hellfire blast should be single target still, but do an armor reduction for 4 seconds since Leoric is all about the auto attack. 2/3/4/5 armor reduction seems fair.
    - Vamp aura -> Vamp Sword. Now instead of an aura, leoric heals himself and allies around him for 5/10/15/20% of damage.
    - Critical strike -> 25% chance to deal 1.25/1.5/1.75/2 (normalize his spikey damage for vamp sword)

    Bloodseeker (he's sooo close to being amazing!)
    -Merge thirst and bath (Blood thirst) to 8/16/24/36 ms and a slightly reduced life gain from kills.
    - New ability passive AoE. Each time an enemy hero is hit in a 3/4/5/600 aoe around him, stryg gains 1/2/3/4% of the damage in hp (triple if it's him). BS is a hero that is supposed to chase and charge into fights, this will increase his ability to do it.

    Alchemist (I love the idea, but he's just too weak!)
    Goblin's Greed - no place in the game right now since the focus has gone away from ricing. Replace it! Alch's acid spray is terrific for team fights along with his stun, and his ult makes him a steroid auto attacker.
    Toxic Hands - Reduces target's armor by 2/3/4/5 when attacking (debuff lasts 2 seconds after last hit) and causes target to take 3/6/9/12 physical dps for 2 seconds.

    Faceless Void
    - Merge timelock and backtrack into Time Warp. 8/12/16/20% chance to backtrack damage, and stun for 1 second. Bounty hunter and panda already have similar combined abilities.
    - Relativity (Instant cast) 60 mana cost, 35 second C/D. Void warps time relative to himself so he can operate in a "quicker" fashion. Increase Void's agility by 25/40/55/70% and cause his opponents in a 400 AoE to lose 10/20/30/40% attack speed for 5 seconds.

    - Have ult's cd reduced to 40 seconds

    Centaur Chieftain
    - Reduce mana cost on Hoof Stomp to 75/85/95/105
    - Change return to % based return

    Dagon - Make it upgradable only to 3 and have it scale with 400/525/650, int 10/13/16 and all stats 3/5/7. Dagon should cost 1100.
  9. Slam

    Slam Well-Known Member

    My 2 cents:

    Kunkka - slight nerf
    Beastmaster - good
    Centaur - slight buff
    ES - (maybe) slight nerf
    Omni - good
    Brewmaster - good
    Sven - good
    Tiny - good
    TC - slight nerf
    Treant - good
    Alchemist - remake
    Bristleback - (maybe) slight buff
    Clockwerk - good
    DK - good
    Magnus - good
    Huskar - good
    Sand king - good
    Spirit breaker - partial remake
    Tide - good
    Axe - good
    Chaos knight - good
    Doom - good
    N'aix - good
    Abaddon - good
    Lycan - good
    Balanar - good
    Pit lord - slight buff
    Butcher - good
    Skeleton king - good
    Sladar - good
    Undying - (maybe) slight nerf
    Anti-mage - good
    Sniper - hard to say... at the moment he is fairly balanced, but I think he should be made into more of an aimer type hero (like PotM or Windrunner) so that you actually require the skill of a sniper to play him well
    Jugg - good
    Sylla - good
    Luna - good
    Morph - good
    Naga - good
    PL - good
    PotM - good
    SA - good
    Troll - good
    BH - good
    Drow - maybe partial remake (e.g. replace silence and trueshot aura with other skills as these are not unique skills) or a slight rework (e.g. less agi in her ulti, but more +damage% in her aura)
    Void - good
    Meepo - good
    Razor - (maybe) slight nerf
    Medusa - good I think (haven't really seen her enough to be 100% sure)
    TA - (maybe) slight buff
    Ursa - hard to say, he's the best at what he does... but I'd love to see him used in the competitive scene and for that he requires a little more survivability in my opinion (probably in the form of a partial remake).
    VS - good
    BS - good
    Clinks - remake
    Broodmother - good
    NA - good
    Weaver - slight buff or partial remake
    PA - good
    Nevermore - good
    TB - good (I do agree though that soul steal should probably be replaced with something else)
    Spectre - good
    Veno - good
    Viper - good
    CM - good
    Enchantress - good
    Puck - good
    Chen - good
    KotL - (maybe) slight buff
    Zeus - (maybe) slight nerf
    Prophet - partial remake
    Silencer - good
    Lina - good
    Storm - good
    Windrunner - good
    Batrider - good
    Techies - this one is always gonna be a bit of a double edged sword, if you keep him the way he is then people will complain, if you remake him then people will complain... Maybe a partial remake? :p
    Invoker - good
    Visage - good
    Ogre Magi - slight buff
    Dazzle - slight change as I suggested in ---> http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3733 and I'll be happy :)
    Rhasta - good
    Tinker - good
    Leshrac - good
    THD - good
    WD - good
    Bane - good
    Dark seer - good
    Krob - good
    Lion - good
    Enigma - good
    Lich - good
    Necrolyte - good
    Pugna - good
    Obsidian - good
    QoP - partial remake (I think Shadow strike should probably be changed to something else as it doesn't really fit the pain theme, maybe it could be changed to something similar that slows based on how much health they are missing)
    Warlock - good

    Thanks :)
  10. Coco4wocks

    Coco4wocks Member

    Agreed. I think Clarity needs to be considered for a duration buff, or if not, a price reduction. I think 35g would be a much more balanced price.

    Many are grossly exaggerating the need for improvements to Magic Wand/Stick. I personally think that it just requires a slightly higher hp-heal-per-spell. 15hp/15mana -> 18hp/18mana. And let the user keep the stored charges from Wand after he upgrades the stick, and viola, a perfect item for competitive play (not that it is lacking in popularity among clans)

    A zero-mana Mekansm that heals up to 270 hp AND mana, for less than 500g per player will be a God-send for anyone. I'm sure people will find ways to build up the charges in lane or in ganks given the dominance of spell-based heroes.
  11. Bob

    Bob Member

    I know you're a bit busy what with other balancing, but Pudge could certainly use some love.
    The last buff to Flesh Heap was nice, but I feel things could go even farther in terms of rebalancing his early and late-game abilities. Right now he peters out towards late game; any fix to this would be great.
    Keep up the good work.

  12. Psycho

    Psycho Well-Known Member

    I don't know, but Rhasta is quite weak even with Aghanim, becouse you've reduced 2 wards, that's a lot. Bringing it back and switching it with something else would do the same thing as you intended, but please don't take aways his wards, it is all he has:)
  13. gh0un

    gh0un Well-Known Member

    Reconsider Taurens aoe stun.
    Stunning the whole enemy team without being remotely near the fight is way too strong.

    We did tests on this and came to the conclusion that you really cant evade a spirit stomp that is placed right on top of you, even if youre running already. The aoe range is too big for that to be possible.

    Coupled with the extraordinary casting range for the spirit, which makes it impossible to prevent TC from stunning everyone, its just too good of a combination.

    My suggestions:

    1. reduce the casting range for the spirit
    2. reduce the aoe range of the stomp incapacitate

    Another issue is the not breaking incapacitate, regardless of if youre being hit or not.
  14. GoD_Tyr

    GoD_Tyr Well-Known Member

    I really, really love that partial remake of his skills. great job man

    Suggestion: that Relativity skill could also be combined with Time Walk, slowing their attack and move speed at the same, but with reduced numbers:
    - 10/15/20/25% move and attack speed slow in 400 AOE around him, Void's agility increases by 25/35/50/65%. Lasts 5 seconds (tweaked some numbers)
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
  15. Soulfly

    Soulfly Well-Known Member

    Increase quelling blade cost
  16. Textbook

    Textbook Well-Known Member

    Nice list, slam.

    Please buff sniper. He desperately needs it.
  17. ~Maktor~

    ~Maktor~ Well-Known Member

    Tauren is perfectly ok, froggy, its not imba, its just those common noobs that call the new heros IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA, so dont pay attention to it. LOL

    And indeed, QoP is crap now...maybe a little buff on her ult
  18. GoD_Tyr

    GoD_Tyr Well-Known Member

    Yeah, everyone kinda forgets that you have alot of weapons against spells and stuns. BkB is one of them for sure lol.
  19. dudoie22

    dudoie22 Well-Known Member

    who ever said upgradeable force staff, that would be awesome. Nerf lycan, and maybe toy with other Aggies upgrades? I would like to see Aggies on more than 4 Agility heroes. Which ones exactly, im not sure yet, but i may edit this post with suggestions.
  20. squ1sh

    squ1sh Member

    yeah, that can work too. I just think that void's 2 passives are just too plain. There are a few heroes who have this need of merging. Strygwyr, Leoric, Void, and Sniper. I just hate seeing heroes who aren't as complete as they could be!

    Also I don't think Lycan needs a nerf. He's more of a pubstomper. Maybe tool around his abilities, but I don't think a direct nerf is needed.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
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